Still trying

Aidoneus · #1

I gave MFoG another try this morning. Set 1 dan, 7 handicap, 60 minutes each, 6 extra segments of 60 seconds. I lost by 4.5. I knew my group in the upper left was trapped, but I played around hoping to eventually bust it out from the outside. Fail. If anyone could point out a series of articles or a book that I should buy to learn what to do with my stones in the middle left of this game, I would greatly appreciate the help! (I know that I said that I would reread Shape Up! before trying MFoG again, and I did reread the first three chapters in bed last night, but my wife went to the gym this morning and I couldn't resist giving it a go.)

Hey emeraldemon, I'm really looking forward to our teaching game this afternoon!! :bow:

topazg · #2

Knotwilg · #3

Main theme in this game:

"Keep your stones connected and those of White cut on a large scale"

and

"don't swallow small stones instead".

Some examples:

- At :b12:

the lower right is dead. Therefore: :b14:

and

are almost pass moves (they do erase a bit of aji here). While :b14:

may be a result of a lack of confidence in L&D abilities, :b16:

is merely swallowing a dead group.
- :b28:

connect your stones, cut white's
- :b104: this stone does nothing, because your groups are connected here already

You could try this in the next few games:

- stay connected
- cut up and surround White on a large scale
- when you eat a stone, think again: is it an important stone, i.e. does it connect my groups? does it cut white's troops?

You will see a major advance from this alone.

(of course topazg's analysis is broader and has more lessons)

SoDesuNe · #4

"Attack and Defense" is still the classic middle game book.

Aidoneus · #5

Hi topazg (I have to double check the spelling every time) and Knotwilg, thank you for your comments.

I thought that I needed :b12:

, etc., to kill. Also, I waited too long to kill White's top left corner, leaving my stones to die instead. I know that I need a lot more work on L&D, especially corner shapes.

I played :b17:

at d17 thinking that I had more potential territory along the top, and that blocking instead at c16 would be inhibited by White's stone at c12. Wrong thinking on my part.

Yeah, :b26:

at f3 would have been more solid. I certainly will try to remember this example!

Looking after the game, I think that somewhere around :b44:

I should have played at c18 (or something :lol:

) to kill the corner and save my stones.

I fell into wishful thinking with :b48:

, I thought that White would extend with :w49:

at m4 and I would then pounce on m6. It really helped me, though, that MFoG seemed to think that it had a ladder!

Topazg's comment on :w77:

I sorta deliberately played a lot of tenuki moves because I have been following so much!?

I knew a moment after playing :b80:

I had made the dreaded empty triangle, but it was too late. :sad:

Now

at d18, and I was :cry:

Too late for playing at c18, and my group looked dead. I played a bit in here to get one eye and hoped for a connection miracle from outside. More wishful thinking.

Yeah, against a human I would have resigned around move 133, but with a computer I wanted to see how badly I would lose. If MFoG had not made so many territory filling moves (not to mention the failed invasion) the game would not have been nearly so close at the end!

Sometimes I feel like Sisyphus wrestling with my stones. Thanks again for all of your observations and encouragements. :bow:

New comment by SoDesuNe: Yeah, I keep seeing praise for Attack and Defense. I was thinking about ABC's of Attack and Defense first, though. Do you think that I can jump straight to Davies' book? And thank you for uploading more comments! I will look as soon as I post this reply.

Bill Spight · #6

A few comments.

Edit: This is a well commented game!

Aidoneus · #7

Bill Spight wrote:

A few comments.

Edit: This is a well commented game!

I am blessed!! It's time for my teaching game now, but I will study your comments this afternoon.

SoDesuNe · #8

Aidoneus wrote:

I was thinking about ABC's of Attack and Defense first, though. Do you think that I can jump straight to Davies' book?

I've never read 'ABC's of Attack and Defense' so I really can't tell where the difference is between those two. I guess both are fine in the end. At least I've never heard that ABC's is "easier".

Mike Novack · #9

I hate to be a party pooper, but when playing against a program like this, you can't simply pick an amount of handicap and then after having lost a number of games by a small margin decide that this is the "not quite enough" enough handicap << for the optimum learning situation where you win one of every three or four games >> The algorithm will play so as to maximize the chances of winning, not the margin of victory. Very much as in a match sailboat race where the leading boat guarantees its lead by keeping between the trailing boat and the next mark instead of setting a course directly for the next mark << in which case a change in wind direction might give the trailing boat a chance >>

If you are losing all your games at seven stones, even by just a small margin, I suggest you try what happens when you take eight stones. In other words, find the handicap that is too much for ideal learning (you win too high a percentage of games) and take one less, then keep reducing by a stone as you learn.

Aidoneus · **#10**

Mike Novack wrote:

If you are losing all your games at seven stones, even by just a small margin, I suggest you try what happens when you take eight stones. In other words, find the handicap that is too much for ideal learning (you win too high a percentage of games) and take one less, then keep reducing by a stone as you learn.

I wasn't losing all of my games. :mrgreen:

I tried 5 stones for the first time yesterday after taking a break. Though I lost badly (viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10668&p=170635#p170635), I will try a few more games at this handicap to see if I can win sometimes.

Edit: BTW, at 3 kyu and 1 dan it feels like I'm always in a knife fight! Good for working on my lack of contact fighting skills, and one reason I went back to playing igowin for awhile.

Still trying

Who is online