So I was playing over this position with a 4k and here's some variations that we've come up with to try and see how white's double approach is bad. In his actual game he played the 3-3 point where black's kosumi out seemed nautral to me.
How should play black in this position?
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Abyssinica
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How should play black in this position?
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EdLee
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Hi Abyss,
Just my impressions:
Instead of
at 5-5, how about o4 ?
seems strange to me. R3 (3-3) seems very big.
also seems strange to me. Pull out M3 and fight.
Both sides want 3-3. It's the big shared local vital point
after you take 5-5. (Think of 5-5 and 3-3 as miai.)
letting W get that huge ponnuki on the outside
seems very good for W. Instead, cut at S6 directly.
Also, instead of
pushing at R7,
B has other options, like Q9 (jump ahead of W).
Just my impressions:
Instead of
at 5-5, how about o4 ? seems strange to me. R3 (3-3) seems very big. also seems strange to me. Pull out M3 and fight.Both sides want 3-3. It's the big shared local vital point
after you take 5-5. (Think of 5-5 and 3-3 as miai.)
letting W get that huge ponnuki on the outsideseems very good for W. Instead, cut at S6 directly.
Also, instead of
pushing at R7,B has other options, like Q9 (jump ahead of W).
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Charles Matthews
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Re: How should play black in this position?
I'm pretty sure that as White I'd playAbyssinica wrote:
as M4. Otherwise three weak groups are possible. It should be enough for White to get one strong group in this area. is criticised. Trying to settle the position is not the right idea at present. Playing M4 now seems pretty obvious in terms of this being Black's strong area.Going back, maybe Black's timing is off: pull out at M4 then press seems more natural. So
at O5 could be the way to play.-
ez4u
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Re: How should play black in this position?
Below are the only four examples in GoGoD of the double approach move when the 3-space extension is invaded (out of 1,100 examples of that). As always YMMV. 
White continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next...
White continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next... Black continued with 'a' next...
Dave Sigaty
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drmwc
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Re: How should play black in this position?
In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining.
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HermanHiddema
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Re: How should play black in this position?
Oooh, I know that onedrmwc wrote:In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining.
Ouch.
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Uberdude
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Re: How should play black in this position?
Herman, whilst that's a nice reminder that capturing black does not necessarily means success, I expect white has better lines of play there such as 34 at m6 or h4. This allows black to live but he does damage his corner and outside stones to do so. But also white is cut so there is fighting ahead. Seems vaguely plausible for both without actually doing any reading.
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HermanHiddema
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Re: How should play black in this position?
@uberdude: Yes, white can try other options, but I think it is a hard area to fight in for him, because black is strong on both sides. If black lives inside white gets two groups that are not 100% alive yet. That's why I would much prefer L4 instead of K4. White does not get split, while black's position ends up low.
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Uberdude
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Re: How should play black in this position?
And just one comment for Abyssinica on the original sgf. In the 2nd variation at move 29 black plays h2, l2 is better and means you don't even give white the 2 stones.
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Abyssinica
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Re: How should play black in this position?
Reminds me of the 19 point trick play.HermanHiddema wrote:drmwc wrote:In your variation for 23, white replying with 24 at K4 rather than L4 may be entertaining.
Ouch.
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drmwc
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Re: How should play black in this position?
White 34 as suggested in the proposed counter to my move seems very passive.
As uberdude said, there are nearly ceratinly better option. If black is forced to make a small life, white may be able to generate an attack against the corner. For example,
In this line, black lives, but white 40 causes huge damage, both in territorial terms and the balance of power.(White may also be able to play more stronly at move 38 and go for the kill by playing at 39.) So 35 is probably wrong, and we need altneratives. Black can try to get a squeeze:
White 38 thwarts that aim, and IMO white is not doing badly. White could also contemplate dodgin the squeeze a move earlier:
If black answers W36 by blocking, he is forced and I think that white dodges any geta/squeeze attempts. So maybe Black needs to cut. However, I thik black now has issues. If he continues by trying to live:
I think white can go for the kill. Continuing:
White has 4 liberties, which is sufficient. So black needs to avoid this line. One idea is to throw in earlier at move 47.
White 50 connects, and black cannot enclose white so he collapses.
So I remain to be convinced the proposed counter to my move is in fact effective.
As uberdude said, there are nearly ceratinly better option. If black is forced to make a small life, white may be able to generate an attack against the corner. For example,
In this line, black lives, but white 40 causes huge damage, both in territorial terms and the balance of power.(White may also be able to play more stronly at move 38 and go for the kill by playing at 39.) So 35 is probably wrong, and we need altneratives. Black can try to get a squeeze:
White 38 thwarts that aim, and IMO white is not doing badly. White could also contemplate dodgin the squeeze a move earlier:
If black answers W36 by blocking, he is forced and I think that white dodges any geta/squeeze attempts. So maybe Black needs to cut. However, I thik black now has issues. If he continues by trying to live:
I think white can go for the kill. Continuing:
White has 4 liberties, which is sufficient. So black needs to avoid this line. One idea is to throw in earlier at move 47.
White 50 connects, and black cannot enclose white so he collapses.
So I remain to be convinced the proposed counter to my move is in fact effective.