OCA's log

[lorca]

Hi Oca, a few comments on the "win" game:

let's black get a solid corner because R14 is already in place. Your stone is weak and will have a hard time getting a base because it is also high.

After your group has no space for a home and can only run into the center or hope to connect to Q10. I would consider playing P12 now.

is dangerous and shows fighting spirit. Be careful not to create to many weak groups! This time the outcome is good because with you finally manage to connect them.
Nevertheless: There are still two white weak groups on the board (while Black has only one), which black could easily attack.

Luckily again you manage to connect them (which black should have avoided), so after everything seems fine.
Your territory is bigger than blacks and quite solid while both of you have still potential in the middle.

Black thoughts and strategic concepts in this game were quite good, luckily you are the better fighter, so black could not pressure your groups severely enough.

Remember to keep your groups healthy

[lorca]

Now for the "resign" game:

everything looks fine until

I don't like very much. You are correct that black has extended a little bit to far.
But it is too early to punish it for there are more urgent points.
I think enclosing your upper left corner looks very good now instead.

is also not as big as the enclosure. In fact the top and the left area are more important for both players now.
Often (not always, as always) you can decide this by just looking where the largest space is on the board.
On top of that, enclosing a 3-4 is most of the time bigger than enclosing a 4-4, because by enclosing the former you get solid territory while you can still invade the latter easily (also asymmetrical vs. symmetrical)

makes the same mistake and gives you now a nice corner while you can attack the white stone.

You are absolutely right with - I think you were afraid of white attacking your corner?
But it is still better to rob whites base first with a move around K16.


seems an overplay. Altough it hits the shape point, white is strong and alive after the next move, so your stone is to close to whites thickness.

looks like it is a bit misplaced, I guess you tried to split white here? (As you see this doesn't work)
Always be careful when you're playing a knights move: it can often be cut, so your two stones are not really connected.

I think at this point you are ahead in terms of territory, because you got three corners, while your opponent only has one and a bit side territory.

But then white getting into your top right corner which should have been solid territory for you is very painful.
Maybe at R12 for example would have been much better, although you sacrifice a stone here.

After this, it gets a bit messy.

[oca]

Hi lorca, thank you very much for your comments ! That really help me !

[Knotwilg]

My highlights for the resign game:

a careless move that reveals "play without thinking"
attacks a strong group while the corner is not yet safe

from here onwards, both treat the corner as alive, it seems, until White uses it for a kothreat
I understand that the situation is difficult to assess but it can die

a move like 33, sacrificing a stone with no gain, making white stronger with free ponnuki

good fighting move
-:b103: splendid fighting sequence
:b105: alas, missed opportunity to win the fight; can you see it?

:b115: another careless stone thrown into white's arms

then until 152 both ignore the ko in the upper right

:b155: this ko now has no value

As you point out, 33, 61, 115, 155 look like "emotional" moves which complicate the game.

You are a good fighter though, especially in your own sphere of influence. My advice would be to move more carefully in the opponent's sphere of influence and to keep your fighting spirit in your own.

----

Highlights for the win game

- create a heavy group while strengthening black
wrong atari: cut your opponent on a large scale
sacrifice attempt?

- fortunately black mistakes here

fantastic attacking move!!!
taking profit, great play

Congratulations for a convincing victory

[oca]

Hi Knotwilg, thx for your comments,

a careless move that reveals "play without thinking"
==> well yes it is...

attacks a strong group while the corner is not yet safe
==> the idea was to reduce the efficiency of the wall, and a bonus would be to cut next at "a" if possible... but I agree, the timing was wrong...

$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . O O a . . . .
$$ | . . X O O O . .
$$ | . . X X O . O .
$$ | . . . . X O . .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . X . . .
$$ | . O O a . . . .
$$ | . . X O O O . .
$$ | . . X X O . O .
$$ | . . . . X O . .
$$ | . . . X . . . .
$$ +-----------------[/go]

a move like 33, sacrificing a stone with no gain, making white stronger with free ponnuki

==> wanted to siolate H16 white stone... but I saw the atari at G18 only after white played ... so yes, I played to fast as this is not really difficult to read...


good fighting move
-:b103: splendid fighting sequence
:b105: alas, missed opportunity to win the fight; can you see it?

==> oh... thx, now I can see that sequence...

$$Wcm104
$$ --------------+
$$ . O . . . . . |
$$ O . O X . . . |
$$ . O X X . O . |
$$ . O O X 3 X X |
$$ . . X 1 X O 2 |
$$ . . X O O O 4 |
$$ . . O X X X . |
$$ . . O O O X . |
$$ . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . , O . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm104
$$ --------------+
$$ . O . . . . . |
$$ O . O X . . . |
$$ . O X X . O . |
$$ . O O X 3 X X |
$$ . . X 1 X O 2 |
$$ . . X O O O 4 |
$$ . . O X X X . |
$$ . . O O O X . |
$$ . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . , O . . |[/go]

:b115: another careless stone thrown into white's arms
==> sure...

then until 152 both ignore the ko in the upper right
==> I was sure that I killed the "U" group... :w152: was a real surprise for me...
and only then I saw that was going to be a ko... what I missed is that 152 also attach the two stones at S16 and that connecting at T15 doesn't help...


:b155: this ko now has no value
==> Sure, this one was a very "emotional" one... At that point, I was ready to resign, I still played a few moves next buut without any conviction...

As you point out, 33, 61, 115, 155 look like "emotional" moves which complicate the game.

You are a good fighter though, especially in your own sphere of influence. My advice would be to move more carefully in the opponent's sphere of influence and to keep your fighting spirit in your own.

==> ok thnak you again, very usefull !

----

Highlights for the win game

- create a heavy group while strengthening black
==> ok

wrong atari: cut your opponent on a large scale
==> oh... ok I will try that next time...


sacrifice attempt?
==> just no other idea

- fortunately black mistakes here
fantastic attacking move!!!
taking profit, great play
Congratulations for a convincing victory

Thx !

[oca]

here is one that went fine too, I tryed to be "less" agressive...
I commented the first 100 moves...

[oca]

And now... the bad ones ... these are two 9 stones hanicap played against a 2kyu+ on IGS

Try #1, oca's rating :

Try #2, oca's rating :

Any comments welcome...

[Knotwilg]

First, on your comment:

At that point, I was ready to resign, I still played a few moves next buut without any conviction

NEVER EVER get into that mindset. This is my first recommendation to people who want to increase their winning percentage. Don't resign. Don't be "ready to resign". Be ready to assess the situation and grind your way back into the game. As a side effect you will find back your fighting spirit. You can read how I increased my own winning percentage this way at http://senseis.xmp.net/?DieterVerhofsta ... tePractice (when SL is back up).

Next, your latest games:

I like it a lot you commented on your won game. This allows us to see which understanding you have, but fail to apply, and which may be lacking in your understanding (mind you, a lot is lacking in mine as well).

From your analysis I can see you analyze a lot better than you play. This is true for most of us, but the gap seems big in your case. The quality of your analysis is uncomparable to e.g. your play in the two losses, where many of the moves are so nonsensical that one would question if this player understands the rules.

I'll just pick 192 from lost game 2 as a reference move. This move adds a stone to an obviously dead group. It's hard to comment on such a move, hence on the game.

If you compare this to your great insight in the won game that E17 is the biggest move, left unplayed for a long time, then we must wonder why the gap is so large. Incidentally your play in game 1 is also a lot better than in the two losses. Perhaps the handicap has an overwhelming effect?

Without any more reference to particular moves, I can observe:

- thank you moves: forcing the opponent to connect with only loss of your own liberties as an effect (instead: don't play out moves that have no effect other than the opponent answering)
- trying to cut where it is impossible (instead: build some strength and surround, threaten to cut while doing something else ...)
- attaching to stones you want to attack (instead: attack from a distance)

This is my perspective. I'm sure others will be happy to comment on individual moves.
As for me: look at your won game. Take that one as a reference game and try to maintain that level, that kind of thinking, the emotional state in which it was played. You can take it from there.

[EdLee]

Hi oca, about when to resign: it's difficult.
One of the very first things inseis learn is when to resign.

A blanket never-resign is wrong.
The other extreme, to resign at the slightest hint of hardship, is also wrong.
(Should be pretty obvious both extremes are bad.)

Learning when to resign is part of our level.
It's not a simple either-or, clear cut or .
It's a continuum. As we improve, we also improve
our understanding of when to resign.
It's an on-going learning process.

(There are numerous other threads on this topic.)

[EdLee]

Hi oca,

Game 1. is the first move that stood out
as... not good. Don't you feel it's very submissive ?
Very soft ? Did you notice (Q8) is thin ?
That it's too far from its friends ? Did you consider
to split W and continue to attack ? Instead of backing down with ?

Also, did you notice the - exchange makes
a kind of broken shape with your Q10 handi stone ?

... same problems: you're in a 100% defensive mindset.
You're not thinking of attack at all.
And the very clear broken shape for B — do you see it ?

So: ... good fighting spirit, good attacking spirit.
(Although the exact move locations may not be accurate. But good feeling.)
Then, suddenly, ... you were scared, and caved in completely.

(Wanted to include a Sensei's link to Small Gaps, but they're down at the moment.)

basic wrong shape. Also related to the broken shapes.
This is currently a huge problem for you: basic broken shapes.

[oca]

Hi Knotwilg and Edlee,

thanks for your comments, I will check them carfully, but first, a quick one on that statement :

Perhaps the handicap has an overwhelming effect

Well, I think that's true and maybe even worse than that... I know that's weird, but I don't feel confortable with handicap stones... it's like me saying

- "but who put all these stones on my nice blank game ?"
- "but... they are yours... they are supposed to help you ..."
- "oh really ?... so... thank you, I will try to do something with that so..."


Maybe I try to save them all ... I don't know... I will try to comment one of the losing game to see what I can say about it...

[Knotwilg]

(There are numerous other threads on this topic.)

You mean this was the final word?

A blanket never-resign is wrong.

Blanket statements are often the ones that get people out of a bad habit. "Learn when to resign" is a proper statement but for one who resigns too often and too early a square "don't resign" sounds fair to me.

Cheers.

[EdLee]

Hi oca,

Example: basic broken shape for Black:

$$
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . X O . . .
$$ . . . O X . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . X O . . .
$$ . . . O X . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . .[/go]

See ... shape in game 1.

[EdLee]

Hi oca,

Example: basic broken shape for Black:

$$
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . X O X . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . .

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$
$$ . . . . . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . X O X . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . O . . .
$$ . . . . . . .[/go]

See game 1: - shape.

[EdLee]

Hi oca,

Game 1: at , notice how you started to attack W on (which is good),
but the end result is W gets life and a huge broken shape for B (which is bad).
Globally, B is still OK. But you can study your moves
up to in this game. And see how you forced W
to get this result.

do you see that if you don't connect on ,
and allow W to capture your 2 stones on (which W did),
then W instantly makes 2 eyes and lives ?
Whereas if you connect on , then W is still not alive ?

- exchange: in addition to the broken shape for B,
can you think of 2 other reasons this is bad for B.

why is this wrong ?