Interesting new move by Cho U

oren · Post by **oren** » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:50 pm

Cho U is white playing Yamashita Keigo in a critical meijin league match. He starts off with a very unusual fuseki.

http://www.asahi.com/igo/meijin/PND39_29_a01.html

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 5:41 am

very intresting move...
i am assuming that he studied the variation prior.
first inital thought on the move: Not good. (then again, who am i to say what is good and bad)
second thought on the move: Not good.
If u compare two diag below... i think that trade is good for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O , O . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

let me know what you think.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:31 am

Cho won by 1.5, resulting in Yamashita's first loss in the league after winning six straight. Of course Yamashita lost again just four weeks later to Murakawa then lost the league playoff to Kono Rin. Who knows whether losing to such a crazy-looking move perhaps shook his confidence.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:29 am

ez4u wrote:Cho won by 1.5, resulting in Yamashita's first loss in the league after winning six straight. Of course Yamashita lost again just four weeks later to Murakawa then lost the league playoff to Kono Rin. Who knows whether losing to such a crazy-looking move perhaps shook his confidence.

Yeah, I was wondering the same. I'm looking forward to the publishing of the 0.5 game against Kono.

Separate from this topic but Kono was on a ~19 game win streak before losing last two recently to Iyama in Gosei.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:30 am

Magicwand wrote: i am assuming that he studied the variation prior.

In the article, Cho U said he had been studying this. He ended up using it again soon after as well.

Yamashita said his own study wasn't enough. Though I'm not sure how he could have really been prepared for it.

John Fairbairn · Post by **John Fairbairn** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 9:46 am

The Asahi commentary says White 6 surprised both the game recorder, who had to crane over and check the location, and Yamashita. But it was clearly planned because Cho spent just two minutes on it.

And, indeed, after the game Cho confirmed he's been studying it on the internet. Yamashita said he'd be looking into it straight away.

The newspaper commentator suggested a name for it: "We might call it a large knight's approach from above (ueoogeimagakari) against the star point. Even though it might be used as an erasing tactic when faced with a large moyo, it is the first time such a White 6 has been played at this early stage. It surely has to be considered a new move."

In response to Magicwand's tewari analysis, I'd suggest that this may be convincing locally, but in whole-board terms the White 6 stone in the tewari mapping could be seen as a forcing move, which implies that White may have the initiative. To have the initiative so early in the game could be considered a plus for White.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:10 am

Does anyone have the sgf? It's not on Mr Kin's site. I'd like to see how Cho U makes that stone work. Btw Magicwand's diagram is slightly wrong in that in the game the black stone at the top side was on hoshi (k16, not at k17) so white doesn't have the k15 cap which would be one idea for me of how to make that stone look vaguely useful.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 10:27 am

The result is incorrect (should be w+1.5) and there has to be more moves.

From here...
http://wiki.optus.nu/igo/index.php?cmd= ... kid=136141

vier · Post by **vier** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 1:34 pm

oren wrote:The result is incorrect (should be w+1.5) and there has to be more moves.

Tami · Post by **Tami** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:04 am

Ueoogeimagakari (上大ゲイマカカリ) and its English translation "Large Knight's Approach from Above" are both a bit of a mouthful!

So, with my passion for naming things, I would like to proffer "Leviathan" as a possible name for this interesting move. If you need something simpler, then how about "Whale"? I think both possibilities invoke the sense of scale and depth behind the Ueoogeimagakari. Or if you the community prefer something closer to the Japanese (Knight's Approach), then how about "Flying Horse" or "Pegasus"?

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 9:22 am

Seeing as the knight approaches from below, don't ninjas attack from above?

Tami · Post by **Tami** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 10:38 am

Uberdude wrote:Seeing as the knight approaches from below, don't ninjas attack from above?

Could be!

It might help attract new players if they were to find out that Go is so exciting that there's even a special move in it called the "ninja's approach".

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:15 pm

Uberdude wrote:Seeing as the knight approaches from below, don't ninjas attack from above?

isn't that what makes them ninjas? you never really know exactly where they attack from.

boily · Post by **boily** » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:58 pm

I like the idea of a pegasus. there is lots of animal names in go already also.

what about calling it the kirin and kiringakari respectively

it is a giraffe but also its the mythical creature.

u can read about it on here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qilin

Michael Redmond mentioned that Alexander Dinershteyn played it in a game at the world mind games this year against China 9p Yuying Mi.
I have seen So Yokoku playing this opening.

game was on ranka site.

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Interesting new move by Cho U

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