Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

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MountainGo
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Score - B: 64, W: 30
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . X m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | X O O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | X O . O . O X O O 5 . |
$$ | X . . . X X O X X O X |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O O . |
$$ | X O O O X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O m O # . . X O X X |
$$ | O X X O O X . X O O . |
$$ | . . X . O X . . X O . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
Oh dear, I'm pretty sure he just let me capture the corner. So a game that I was going to resign at one point becomes a game that I win by a lot. I'll take that as a lesson.
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topazg
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by topazg »

Yeah, that'll do me. Thanks for the game, I resign :)
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

Thanks for the game! As you'll see from my comments if you read them, I really thought I'd lost. Feel free to critique any of my move choices if you so fancy.
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by topazg »

You played a really good game, Batoo is really very interesting. I'd made some poor choices early on, particularly with regards to how to handle base stones and plus points, and you followed up nicely. Particularly your handling of the corner sequences were good.

The one thing I would say is that it was worth getting D4 before me so that you can kill my group. Because of the lost fight in the top right, you are ko master. You can happily throw away the stones in my corner if you live with the other group, and if I respond to those ko threats you kill my corner. I was lucky that the position turned into a seki, but it wasn't enough.

I'm sorry for the lack of general comments in this game, and for that matter the other Malkovich game - I'm really burned out at the moment and debating whether I should be carrying on with the thing if I don't have the time and energy to do it properly. I've certainly been sold on Batoo though, a great idea of yours to play a game here :)
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

prokofiev wrote:
Looks very close, but taking the plus point at F11 is sente for black now!
I'm not so sure...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . 4 . 2 . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . X m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | X . . . X X O X X O p |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O . . |
$$ | X O O O X . . X . O . |
$$ | . O m O # . . X W X X |
$$ | O X X O O X . 3 O O . |
$$ | . . X . O X . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by prokofiev »

MountainGo wrote:
prokofiev wrote:
Looks very close, but taking the plus point at F11 is sente for black now!
I'm not so sure...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . 4 . 2 . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . X m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | X . . . X X O X X O p |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O . . |
$$ | X O O O X . . X . O . |
$$ | . O m O # . . X W X X |
$$ | O X X O O X . 3 O O . |
$$ | . . X . O X . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Good catch, thanks.
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

topazg wrote:You played a really good game, Batoo is really very interesting. I'd made some poor choices early on, particularly with regards to how to handle base stones and plus points, and you followed up nicely. Particularly your handling of the corner sequences were good.
Thanks!
The one thing I would say is that it was worth getting D4 before me so that you can kill my group. Because of the lost fight in the top right, you are ko master. You can happily throw away the stones in my corner if you live with the other group, and if I respond to those ko threats you kill my corner. I was lucky that the position turned into a seki, but it wasn't enough.
The thing is, as Jonas pointed out (and as I seem to have forgotten even though I see in my sgf for this game that I knew at the time), after your connection move, you're still not alive. And since I had sente, I saw that as a better result. What do you think?
I've certainly been sold on Batoo though
Me too!
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by topazg »

MountainGo wrote:The thing is, as Jonas pointed out (and as I seem to have forgotten even though I see in my sgf for this game that I knew at the time), after your connection move, you're still not alive. And since I had sente, I saw that as a better result. What do you think?


Yeah, I'm not convinced. Obviously in his diagrams I'm not going to let you make the bulky five. So it's still a ko, and I'll respond by making sure you don't have a ko threat against the 4 stone group.

However, if you'd taken D4 just before I did then C3 actually puts a group of mine into atari, which means if you get B1 as well you guarantee making a bulky five and I'm simply dead. Then I have to trigger the ko fight myself straight away, at which point you capture first and those ko threats against the running top right group are lethal:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 41, W: 23
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . . m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | p . . . X X O X X O p |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O . . |
$$ | X O O 2 X . . X . . . |
$$ | . O 3 O # . . X m . . |
$$ | O X X O O X . . . . . |
$$ | 6 5 4 . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 41, W: 23
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . . m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | p . . . X X O X X O p |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O . . |
$$ | X O O 2 X . . X . . . |
$$ | . O m O # . . X m . . |
$$ | O X X O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 4 . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Score - B: 41, W: 23
$$ +-----------------------+
$$ | . . . . . p . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . @ . . . . |
$$ | . . m O . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O . . O X X @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X O O . . |
$$ | p . . . X X O X X O p |
$$ | . X # X . O O X O . . |
$$ | X O O 2 X . . X . . . |
$$ | . O m O # . . X m . . |
$$ | O X X O O X . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ +-----------------------+[/go]
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by freegame »

That last bit went way to fast for my likes. (Having multiple moves in one "turn" still seems weird to me)
Anyway. I enjoyed following the game and the comments from both of you.

If any of you is interested in playing another BatooKovich feel free to ask me for one. :)
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Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

topazg wrote:However, if you'd taken D4 just before I did then C3 actually puts a group of mine into atari
But then I've paid two gote moves and 10 points. I'm not really disagreeing with you per se, I'm just not seeing it. This is the kind of stuff that drives me bonkers. I'm sure I'll be able to understand this stuff confidently one day.
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Re: Batookovich #1: topazg vs MountainGo

Post by MountainGo »

freegame wrote:(Having multiple moves in one "turn" still seems weird to me)
Just think of them as triggers that the player doesn't bother to hide because they're so obvious. As you saw, the other player is always free to object.

Perhaps it is silly to do more than 6 or so moves at once, though, as, clearly, what is inevitable in one's eyes isn't necessarily so in the other's.
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