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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #61 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:13 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 66
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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going to try to stabilize quickly this group and then invade the upper left corner.
If I don't come up with something quite acceptable I will resign :oops:

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #62 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 10:24 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: EGF 1d
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting, apparently black didn't approve of my plan so this counter came up. However, I'll just make the ironpillar here since my plan is to build more influence here anyway.

If black lives now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . 4 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | 1 O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's pretty much like my earlier plan.

If black protects:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or should I take sente instead?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , 6 . 8 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | 3 O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 5 . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not sure. (1) is not certain, but it shouldn't be that much different in principle even if he defends with some other move.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #63 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:29 pm 
Dies in gote

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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now I got a secure base. Here is my plan. If white doesn't play 3, I will play somewhere else, as I will be able to reduce the upper territory later (because of the open skirt).
The sacrifice of the black's group down there cost me around 20-25 points, so the reverse komi as been greatly reduced...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=3
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #64 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:10 am 
Lives with ko
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black forcing me to kill his group. It's hard to complain. I assume black will tenuki now, so I will have a target here for attack later.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #65 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:52 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure that I'm alive if white play x, so I want to play the double sente move a before, even if I'm not sure white will answer it. And I'm keeping the dead black group has potential ko threat for later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . B X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | x . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #66 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:08 am 
Lives with ko
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Rank: EGF 1d
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this is a bit painful for black, I'll just continue to develop my influence. Black doesn't seem 100% alive yet either. Will he take sente and invade top or add one more move to protect?

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #67 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:53 am 
Dies in gote

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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


following my plan. If white answer and after the sequence I will play a, b or c... I haven't make up my mind yet.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . O . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #68 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:08 am 
Lives in sente
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[go]$$Wc
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . O . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B W O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B B X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Do you really believe that the marked white stones do not have any effect on the possible invasion in the top left?

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #69 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 6:27 am 
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | B O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 2 X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think White will play 3 because this shape influences the upper side even more! Do hane on the first line at this point of the game is unbearable for black, I think this may cost him the game. But what should black do instead? The general mistake was already the attachment here:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black needs to keep his stones light and get out fast!

I would abondon the stone for this moment because getting out looks not good, if Black really wants to get a light move like 1 looks best I think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O X O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But what to do now instead of the hane?
Well black is already in big trouble, I believe 'a' or 'b' are now the only moves, but white will gain alot.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . b a . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #70 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:10 am 
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Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black played a big endgame move, but now it is uncertain that (a) works for black later.

White (b) will help black make life, so There is no real need to play there now because black will not push at (b) now anyway since it would just make matters worse, so white can probably get the endgame move later anyway. Now black still has to worry about life.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #71 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:35 am 
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Rank: KGS 4 kyu
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . B . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No comment, I just feel it good...


Last edited by The Pilgrim on Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #72 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:48 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . W . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It's important to move first here, but black is starting to look busy on the board. I will just keep up the aggression for now and grab some cash while black is trying to stay alive.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #73 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:28 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , B . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sry for not giving good explanation. I'm making a contact move to stabilize quickly my G17 stone

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #74 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:02 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W O . X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Gonna go for the corner, not sure how I would handle a crosscut if I hane so this will have to do.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #75 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:45 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O B X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know what to do with myself... I don't know what to do...

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #76 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:42 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'll just grab the cash with a shape that has minimum aji, with bottom dead group, white is starting to catch up to black in terms of territory, and black still has two weak groups, so this is starting to look quite good.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X . . . b . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . a . . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black goes for greed, I will harass his shape at (a), I guess black will (a) directly or try something like (b) or (c). I'll just push and make more thickness if black (b), (c) seems like overplay so then I will fight hard.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #77 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:46 am 
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Some more thoughts:

I guess I can look at his left group while waiting:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In terms of pure eyespace, black doesn't seem to have enough locally, so whatever chance black has will relate to the aji in the center.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 6 O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | 9 O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | 8 O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Blocking the center doesn't seem to work since (a) gives life now. However, getting the outside thickness is worth a lot in itself so this isn't too bad for white.

White can let bottom live:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . # . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | a O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X , . T . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 2 1 . . . T . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X 5 . . . . . T . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 9 X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 6 O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | 8 O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White should gain like this because it also removes the endgame move at (a). Adding the centerinfluens, this would be a happy deal for white.

Since all these variations are painful for black, I would assume that breaking out is what black should try:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 prisoners w=4
$$ ----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . O . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . # . . M . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | X O O O . M . M . M . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X a . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O X O . . O X . . O . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O X X X O O X X . . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X X . X O . O X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(a) or (b) probably, but when we run along in the center, the top group is getting pressured, white should thus still have the initiative and be able to attack that group and later switch to (c) or (d).

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #78 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:09 am 
Dies in gote

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With the recent really worst shitty news of my all life, I won't finish this game. And I won't play Go for a really long time I think...

Life sucks :cry: really sucks...

sry for this

goodbye all

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #79 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:16 am 
Dies in gote
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KGS: Nakamura
Sorry to hear that, The Pilgrim. I hope you can keep your head up during these rough times, that's what counts! I don't know what is going on, so I can only offer general advice, but I hope everything turns out ok for you.

_________________
7 kyu. Nakamura on kgs.

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 Post subject: Re: 55. Kie (3d) vs The Pilgrim (3k)
Post #80 Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2010 11:54 am 
Lives with ko
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Take care

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