Chinese Professional Ratings List
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Chinese Professional Ratings List
Since I do not read Chinese, I am always annoyed that there do not seem to be any up-to-date translations of the Chinese professional rankings. So I had to take a shot at rolling my own... Below are the top 50 from the listing on qipai.org.cn. I matched the original names to the GoGoD onomasticon (name list) on my last CD version. Most seemed to match. The characters in a couple of names (indicated with **) did not exactly match anyone in the list. Any advice on whether these were alternative characters for the names shown below or different people altogether would be appreciated.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
Here is the update for August 2014. Shi Yue stays on top while Zhou Ruiyang jumps over Gu Li and Chen Yaoye to seize the #2 slot. Down in the middle of the list the big mover is Liao Xingwen, who jumps from #37 in July to #27 in August. (As before if you notice any name errors please let me know!)
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
-
John Fairbairn
- Oza
- Posts: 3724
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:09 am
- Has thanked: 20 times
- Been thanked: 4672 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
As regular readers may recall I am not a fan of Mickey Mouse time limits, which blight Korean go especially. I am not alone - they irk many pros. China has always had a more measured approach to them, and I notice also the recent introduction of playing both slow and fast games in the same event (the China Weiqi League) after a trial switchover to fast games only. This, I imagine, was to provide the balance between fast games for tv and slow games for pros' satisfaction.
But even in China there are many fast games, so the question arises as to how much they affect the ratings. I see that chess uses three distinct rating systems based on time limits (Classical, Rapid, Blitz, with Classical being the most respected one), and the range between them for an individual player can be huge - something like 150 points among the top ten. Although Carlsen is now No. 1 in all three classes, this is only recent and it is more typical for a player's position in each list to vary wildly. Some are much better at classical and some at blitz.
This suggests to me that the go ratings (both Korean and Chinese, but maybe also KGS), which I believe mingle all the classes, must be adulterated. Am I right? If so, how much adulterated? Does it matter? And is there some theoretical basis for the chess decision to create three streams?
But even in China there are many fast games, so the question arises as to how much they affect the ratings. I see that chess uses three distinct rating systems based on time limits (Classical, Rapid, Blitz, with Classical being the most respected one), and the range between them for an individual player can be huge - something like 150 points among the top ten. Although Carlsen is now No. 1 in all three classes, this is only recent and it is more typical for a player's position in each list to vary wildly. Some are much better at classical and some at blitz.
This suggests to me that the go ratings (both Korean and Chinese, but maybe also KGS), which I believe mingle all the classes, must be adulterated. Am I right? If so, how much adulterated? Does it matter? And is there some theoretical basis for the chess decision to create three streams?
-
Jingliu
- Dies in gote
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2014 1:03 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 13 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
I think most games recognised by the ranking system are still "classic"(hours). In Chinese league-A, only 1 in 5 games is set to "fast"(minutes), and there may be one or two other "fast" cups like Asian TV Cup but not many. "Blitz"(seconds) games are pure commercial shows which are not recognised by the ranking system. Generally the ranking is still dominated by the "classic" with a minor mixture of the "fast".
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
I've been working to fill some more blanks in my name list and also reformatting to make future lists easy to convert and post. Here is a list of the top 150 pros from August, showing the change in rank and rating over the last twelve months, since August of last year. Enjoy!
Is there any description in English of how the rating systems works? I have two questions:
1. It appears that the crop of new pros are dropped into the middle of the system with a rank of 2240 each summer. They appeared on the rating list in July 2013 and again in August 2014 in a clump at 2240. From there they rise or fall based on results. Of the 25 players rated 2240 in August 2013, 11 increased their rating (and rank) while 13 declined (one was missing from the August 2014 list). Ding Hao, ranked at 145 in the list above, was the fastest rising new face from 2013 and just cracked the top 150. How did the ratings makers decide the level for introducing the new pros?
2. It also appears that most pros are inactive most of the time (in that their ratings do not change at all from one month to the next), in terms of rated games. For example, in May and June of this year 71% and 77% of ratings, respectively, showed no change over the preceding month. Is that an artifact of the way ratings are calculated or are average pros really that inactive in terms of tournament games? Which games/tournaments are included in the ratings?
1. It appears that the crop of new pros are dropped into the middle of the system with a rank of 2240 each summer. They appeared on the rating list in July 2013 and again in August 2014 in a clump at 2240. From there they rise or fall based on results. Of the 25 players rated 2240 in August 2013, 11 increased their rating (and rank) while 13 declined (one was missing from the August 2014 list). Ding Hao, ranked at 145 in the list above, was the fastest rising new face from 2013 and just cracked the top 150. How did the ratings makers decide the level for introducing the new pros?
2. It also appears that most pros are inactive most of the time (in that their ratings do not change at all from one month to the next), in terms of rated games. For example, in May and June of this year 71% and 77% of ratings, respectively, showed no change over the preceding month. Is that an artifact of the way ratings are calculated or are average pros really that inactive in terms of tournament games? Which games/tournaments are included in the ratings?
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
-
xed_over
- Oza
- Posts: 2264
- Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:51 am
- Has thanked: 1179 times
- Been thanked: 553 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
no change does not necessarily mean inactive.ez4u wrote:2. It also appears that most pros are inactive most of the time (in that their ratings do not change at all from one month to the next), in terms of rated games. For example, in May and June of this year 71% and 77% of ratings, respectively, showed no change over the preceding month. Is that an artifact of the way ratings are calculated or are average pros really that inactive in terms of tournament games? Which games/tournaments are included in the ratings?
it could mean that the net change from their games resulted in no change.
-
hyperpape
- Tengen
- Posts: 4382
- Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 3:24 pm
- Rank: AGA 3k
- GD Posts: 65
- OGS: Hyperpape 4k
- Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
- Has thanked: 499 times
- Been thanked: 727 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
Since the top 150 includes few players who do not change, it seems like no change = inactivity is a good heuristic.
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
Keep in mind that the new Top-150 list shows the change from a year earlier. Here is a little table I made showing the month-to-month figures. I split out the top-100 versus 'the rest'. If no-rating-change = inactivity, then the life for the 'the rest' looks challenging. This is similar to Japan, but maybe more so!
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
-
ez4u
- Oza
- Posts: 2414
- Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
- Rank: Jp 6 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: ez4u
- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Has thanked: 2351 times
- Been thanked: 1332 times
Re: Chinese Professional Ratings List
BTW, here also is a little graph of pro ratings versus ranks. My take is that moving up through the ranks is a progressively greater challenge as we climb the slope toward the left - I like the imagery. 
Below is the same data plotted as a histogram. Not as exciting IMHO. 
Again the spike at the 2221-2240 bin is caused by the 25 new pros at 2240.
Again the spike at the 2221-2240 bin is caused by the 25 new pros at 2240.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21