I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

tapia · Post by **tapia** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:32 am

Hey, guys, I don't understand how I didn't win this game. I have SO MANY stones of the board. I thought for sure I had it in the bag!!

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:37 am

Change the but to because. In Japanese rules if you play a stone inside your territory you lose a point. Pass instead.

tapia · Post by **tapia** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 1:42 am

That's literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

I quit.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 2:26 am

To give some perspective let me introduce you to yahoo answers : http://blazepress.com/2014/03/30-ridicu ... ked-yahoo/

PeterPeter · Post by **PeterPeter** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:19 am

Go is all about the efficiency of your stones. The idea is that you should lose points if you use more stones than is really necessary to defend your territory.

tapia · Post by **tapia** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:45 am

I get it now.

Pretty beautiful idea that.

Krama · Post by **Krama** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:08 am

Hahah.. one should learn the rules of the game before playing the game itself.

gowan · Post by **gowan** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 6:37 am

There are different rule sets for go. In the Chinese rules, both "territory" and the number of living stones on the board count for points at the end of the game. For those rules you do not lose a point by playing inside your own territory (unless you deprive your group of two eyes) because though you lose one point of territory you gain one point for the additional living stone. Prisoners are not counted in Chinese rules, because each of your stones that is captured in effect reduces by one the number of living stones on the board.

In Japanese rules only territory and captured stones count for points so playing unnecessarily inside your own territory loses you points.

Probably more than you will want to know about these issues can be found on Sensei's Library on this page and the links there: http://senseis.xmp.net/?RulesOfGo

DrStraw · Post by **DrStraw** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:07 am

tapia wrote:Hey, guys, I don't understand how I didn't win this game. I have SO MANY stones of the board. I thought for sure I had it in the bag!!

You did not lose it. You won by 8.5. The score is wrong.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:08 am

First, let me say that this is why I say that when beginners play beginners, they should play by area scoring, such as the AGA rules use. Area scoring counts both live stones and territory. Under area rules there is no penalty for capturing dead stones. It is not always obvious if stones are dead, so how can beginners agree about life and death at the end of the game?

Second, play with your friends, of course.

But if you want to advance play with SDKs or dan players. There is no point in picking up bad habits. Besides, you can learn some things from them.

Third, here are some variations. Learn the snapback.

Fourth, how can I make my claim that :w38:

is dead? At that point White has 27 more points in which to try to live. How can I read that widely and deeply? The number of variations is immense. Well, I didn't read at all. A little knowledge goes a long way.

This diagram shows the minimum number of stones to make an independently living group. It takes 6 stones in the corner, 8 stones on the edge, and 10 stones in the center.

After :w38:

Black is solidly alive. Even assuming that Black has no capture on the top side, Black has only one weak spot, the cut in the top left corner. Assuming that White threatens the cut and Black replies, White has only two of the stones required for life. Does that mean that Black can wait until White has played 5 stones before responding? No, because Black may have to make plays outside of the region that White uses to make life. In this case it seems like Black can only pass twice.

Now, even armed with the 6-8-10 knowledge, I would not expect a rank beginner to see that Black does not have to reply to :w38:

. But later on, after :b45:

for instance, it should be obvious that there is no way that any of the White stones inside the Black compound can live. There is just not enough room.

S2W · Post by **S2W** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:20 am

Thinking about white's reaction put a big smile on my face.

Btw E8 captures 3 more stones.

Edit: As usual bill got there first with a more detailed and insightful analysis. Anyone would think he was some sort of expert.

Abyssinica · Post by **Abyssinica** » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:33 pm

You forgot to play e8

Life In 19x19

I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

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Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board

Re: I lost the game but I've got tons of stones on the board