The way to BlackBelt

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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Elom wrote:I came 5th in my first ever online tornament :)
Congrats! :)
Elom wrote:but I think the main problem might be something else.
Yes, indeed -- the main problem lies in the basics ( the fundamentals ), ALL of them. :)
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Charles Matthews
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Charles Matthews »

Elom wrote:
First game from the onlinego.com STW Tourney:




The file seemed to be buggy, so I removed the comments (which were interesting).

The transition to the middlegame is flawed. I see comments mainly about Black's lost opportunities.

:b33: I'm looking at K16. This seems to be a game of four frameworks, currently. I would start with this shoulderhit to give White a floating group.

:b45: It should be easy for Black to make shape in the centre and damage White's framework on the lower side.

:b51: The thicker way to play is to capture at P7. White will make shape on the right side. Then what? H16 on the upper side is still good, though not as interesting as the previous possibilities. A play on the third line on the lower side? Not quite easy to choose a point.
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

Thanks! I haven't been online for a while so didn't see these posts I'm hoping that in a few weeks from now, when I have more time and internet connection, to start up pro-level training type sessions onL19, so I'd like to gather some information on how "iinsei" train in Korea, China and Japan, and form a new fourth way . NASA wants to go mars in less than ten years . We should be aiming for adding a new continent to the list of international title winners before that!
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

First three games of the Pandanet Online world champinship. I tried to speed review these games, so they are quite brief and don't go into everything about the game-- what I'd call something close to a level 2 review. In the end, though, they still took at least 1.5-2 hours to finish :scratch: heh.

For some reason, my brain seemed to not be working as well in these games XD well apart from th fact I'm plainly weak, and know little joseki, my reading seemed to be quite slow and shallow for some reason, so these games aren't of the best quality. But I reviewed them anyway, And it was nice to play stronger players-- I can say with assurity that I had never played more than 15 games against human players stronger than me in my entire go playing career-- for the past year, where I have never played any bots, it was about 3 before these games.







Also, if you're wondering why it say that I beat LoveLove9d on the site, I was challenged for a game, but then for some reason LoveLove resigned after I played my move as white.

So, I'm going to some joseki study, and I promise that the next game I post I would play better :bow: just wait and see.

edit: fixed a few typographical errors (I blame the keyboard :lol: )

edit: mistakenly typed two l's in typographicall: typographicall :shock: )
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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skydyr
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by skydyr »

So, um... why so eager to approach right away? I won't say this is wrong by any means, but the situation might be a little clearer once all 4 corners are taken and give you a better result since you have a better idea what to aim for.

In the first game, as well, it seems like white is convinced he is going to lose before the fight gets started really. White is by no means in a terrible or game-ending position around move 28, and has potential to engineer some sort of attack against the central black stones.

In the last game, I think after :w10:, black has leaned on the bottom for a bit of strength and needs to use it to keep the left side stone low, or otherwise contained. In the game, when black pushes from behind and then lets white double-hane and strengthen himself, white has a huge wall facing a wide open area of the board, and black has a group curling in on itself with potential to attack a light white stone with plenty of room to make a base. Not exactly ideal.

In addition, at move 25, I'd prefer to take the top left corner, but I won't say taking the enclosure is wrong. However, when white plays in the bottom right corner, it makes the right side really big. Giving white the opportunity to play first there hurts when it's also a big point for black and white has the wall from the bottom left making it difficult for black to get much going there. As you noted, black gets a group that's basically sealed in and has about 5 points, while white's moyo is now mostly territory and white has no weak groups. After white's pressured the left side a bit, white just needs to play casual and keep things simple to cruise to victory.

That said, it's tough to fight against not only stronger players, but also the mental expectation of being slaughtered. The reward is that they point out your mistakes quite clearly, letting you know when you needed to fight back more fiercely, or that you played an overplay here, or that your judgement of the size of moves was wrong in this position. All things that help make you stronger.
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Charles Matthews
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Charles Matthews »

Elom wrote:


Second game.

:b17: White hasn't got an outstanding result lower left, but does have sente. Why did you think this more urgent than the lower right? The left side has an open skirt.

:b19: Contact on the lower stone would make sense here.

:b21: Appears to be the wrong side.

:b31: Not one of the big points.

:b33: This pincer is "joseki-like", but that doesn't mean it is ideal in most positions. I'd be looking at F16, to change the balance of power in the game.

:b37: Now F17 would challenge White.

:b71: What about C5? Just enclosing the centre is usually a way to lose. And Black has been playing low stones on the left. Start a fight, at least.

The first game did look like a mismatch, because you tried to fight fire with fire. But here you overcorrected.
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Uberdude
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Uberdude »

@Elom: game 3 move 9 you said you saw in a pro game, but white 10 answered differently. How did the pro game progress? What can you learn from that? What are the pros and cons of your opponent's game move versus the pro game and what can you learn from that?
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

Hello Everyone! I'm sorry that I haven't been able to come here at all these couple of days and respond to any of the comments posted here, I've only just managed to squeeze a game against a 6D yesterday (while doing other things at the same time, holding a smartphone).

Thanks skydr for you insightful comments, yes, I think that anxiousness caused me to play drastically in a way-- wanting to win so much (too much)

Thanks for your question Uberdude :) I think that in the Samsung game, you could see that Kim activate here white stone that was in black's area, but in the Panda game, we just split the points (but I think white got a better result). I'm planning to add a second sgf of the game with some axtra comments at a alter date.

Here I've made a blitz commentary (level 2) of the game I managed to play while multitasking. time is running out to have the chance to play strong opponents.



The most frustrating thing is that it can be too difficult to find out where one went wrong, a key aspect when playing games with stronger players is the review.
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

@Charles Matthews, thank you for you comments, I've made an updates sgf :) but for some reason BTW Labels don't work on CGoban 3, so I'd have to post on a later date :)
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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Charles Matthews
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Charles Matthews »

Elom wrote:The most frustrating thing is that it can be too difficult to find out where one went wrong, a key aspect when playing games with stronger players is the review.
Marks for fighting spirit; but you can't expect to win such games without better technique.

Here's just one point. At :b7: I would always consider playing P7 rather than Q7. It is a thin shape, maybe, but quite resilient if you later take sabaki chances (at the 3-3 point, double hane or crosscut techniques).

It is partly a matter of style. But deferring fixing the shape means you get to "a better class of mistake" (not kidding, actually). Also you can expect to come away with sente.

To improve, you do have to answer the question "how do I get into better positions?", not just "how do I play the positions I get better?" Worth some thought.
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt: Final Games

Post by Elom »

Thanks Matthews! It's true, one of the first things that signal the strength of a Go player is finesse-- that's the first thing that really strikes out.

Here are the last two games In the 4th SAWMG Online Tournament/19th (huh?) Pandanet World Amateur Online Go Championship.
It's brilliant to have had the chance to play strong players. When I first learned Go, I wanted mostly two types of commented Game records:

1: Pros V Amateurs
2: Kyus V Dans

Now, I've fulfilled some of number two myself! Weird.





In every Game, I got behind in the opening. I'm trying to desperately understand what happened in all of the games, but it's proving a little difficult :cool: I just don't have the finesse. Any comments are welcome!
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by emerus »

Were those games truly 10:00 sudden death?
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

No, they were 10 minutes plus 25 moves within 15 minutes canadian byo-yomi. I'll update the files, thanks :)

10:00 + 25/15
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by jeromie »

I'm glad you enjoyed the tournament. I had fun too, though I didn't fare very well either (even in the C section!).

I'm curious about your move on the 5-5 point in the second game. I rarely see it played, so it stands out. Do you play that move in even games?
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Elom
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Re: The way to BlackBelt

Post by Elom »

jeromie wrote:I'm glad you enjoyed the tournament. I had fun too, though I didn't fare very well either (even in the C section!).

I'm curious about your move on the 5-5 point in the second game. I rarely see it played, so it stands out. Do you play that move in even games?
Hello Jeromie, yes, It was a very valuable experience :) it's true I did play quite a few strange moves during the tournament. Actually, one of the reasons why I played like that was because I wanted to make the game feel a even as possible in my mind, or even to pretend I'm the stronger player ("White is still being loopy" sounds really silly, but that's the point!) and while in a game against an equally ranked player, my opponent may be irritated, it would give a stronger player something to laugh at so that she/he doesn't bore to death :D

Also, earlier on in the month, I noticed that most of the Dan players would play at 5-5 or 5-4 in an attempt to trick me or just make the game fun. SoI decided to take it to them first :rambo: and I always respond to crazy moves with my own crazy moves or crazier moves :cool:
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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