Is there a way to research historical tygem games on the Tygem Ipad client? I'm still trying to get my hands on Cho U's games as Tenzaru2.

Or is the only way to get these to kludge together the PC app so that it works somehow?

Today I installed Tygem on Linux under wine (BTW: the command 'winetricks mfc42' was needed to install the mfc42.dll, after that it runs smoothly). As otenki suggested I registered as 10k. After I logged in the first time on 'China I' I got a game request after about 2 seconds. My opponent played rather strange and offered my a "draw" during the game several times (because I was leading by some 30+ points). After I killed another group, he offered to count (which was technically not possible, because the game was obviously unfinished). After I declined counting, he managed to resign and escape simultaneously, i. e. when I wanted to leave the game window I was told that I have to wait for 5 min until he does not reconnect. Finally, I left the game window and had to click on a resign button to do so. The game was anyway counted as win. In summary - feels a bit strange - but I will keep trying.

I just had someone lose to me by 30 points, and then play slow (maximum timeout for each move) for another 2 hours until the board was full, and then pass and disagree with the final count over and over for another 30 minutes, until my iPad crashed too many times and I was marked the loser. (BTW, there seems to be a glitch/exploit where if you pass and disagree with the score three times, whoever passed first crashes out if they're on an iPad.)

So... I would counter the title of this post with: Why does ANYONE play on Tygem? It seems to more than it's fair share of cheaters who are completely willing to be dishonorable to get a win they didn't deserve or earn.

As far as this bad experience is concerned, I guess it also has to do with the level at which you and I play - at this beginner level, the respect for the game and for the opponent is probably much lower than at higher ranks, and you get this kind of behavior. I just had some pretty nasty experience on another server recently, twice in a row, so really, no server is free of such people.

One thing that might be helpful though from my experience: adapt the server you choose to the time - KGS is probably better in the evenings (European time) than in the afternoons. and conversely for the Asian servers, best in the morning/early afternoon than in the evening european time.

This being said I must say my experience on tygem has not been amazing so far, and this, combined with the fact that it would be quite hard to communicate with an admin, makes me avoid paying there for now. From what I have read, the main interest of them is for dan+ players who seem to find a more substantial opposition at their rank over there. But that is light years away from my own concerns...

2-1/2 hours? really?

or players who are too stubborn to simply walk away, even though they deserved a win.

it was only one game. you could have played a half-dozen more in that same time.

IT is always a temptation to an armed and agile nation
To call upon a neighbour and to say:--
"We invaded you last night--we are quite prepared to fight,
Unless you pay us cash to go away."
And that is called asking for Dane-geld,
And the people who ask it explain
That you've only to pay 'em the Dane-geld
And then you'll get rid of the Dane!

It is always a temptation to a rich and lazy nation,
To puff and look important and to say:--
"Though we know we should defeat you, we have not the time to meet you.
We will therefore pay you cash to go away."
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.

It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be molested,
You will find it better policy to say:--
"We never pay any-one Dane-geld,
Nor matter how trifling the cost;
For the end of that game is oppression and shame,
And the nation that plays it is lost!"

The 2 1/2 hour problem says as much about the time control system as it does about the opponent...

If a person is willing to be really stubborn, you can easily find 200+ moves by filling space, getting your stones captured, then refilling the space... If the time is set to a relatively fast 20s/move byo-yomi, 200 moves is still over an hour. The truth is the rules of go were never really meant to deal with trolling players like this. I really think the most reasonable solution is just to have mods who ban such players, but I have no idea how hard that would be on tygem.

Slightly off topic, but I've spent way too much time on League of Legends lately, and the problem there can be much worse since it's a team game. Imagine playing pair-go with someone who gets pissed off at you for making a move he doesn't like, so he intentionally plays suicidal moves the rest of the game

@SamT: If someone is a jerk like that, why waste your time entertaining them? Just resign and do something productive with your life.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game
Some people will offer a highly unfair split.
Many people will harm themselves in order to not reward that behavior.

Ooh! See, I've already been rewarded for my persistence. I've learned something new

"Rejections in the ultimatum game have been shown to be caused by adverse physiologic reactions to stingy offers.[13] In a brain imaging experiment by Sanfey et al., stingy offers (relative to fair and hyperfair offers) differentially activated several brain areas, especially the anterior insular cortex, a region associated with visceral disgust. If Player 1 in the ultimatum game anticipates this response to a stingy offer, they may be more generous."

Visceral disgust is a very accurate description of what I felt.

Still, perhaps I will be more flexible next time.

I was under the impression that the ranking system on Tygem was like KGS, and if I let him steal the win, then every win I earned afterward he would be awarded a share of. This in particular I could not stand for. It felt wrong down to the very foundations of the game. Viscerally disgusting, as it were.

However, Tygem doesn't work that way. So, blah.

Also, it's the first time I've been cheated playing Go. And I worked very hard to win that game, with several moves I was extremely proud of. So perhaps I took it a little more personally than I normally would.

Oh, and if you haven't noticed, I tend to be rather determined in anything I do.

It is said that it is better to light one little candle than to curse the darkness.

I say why not do both?

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

Hm...the guy was not cheating. He played according to the rules and beat you, because 1) he wanted the win more than you and 2) your technical device failed. I used this technique once just to prove to me how powerful total determination is (I had just read the famous quote about it from Bruce Lee and wanted to "test" it with Go rather than with fighting^^).

Nah - keep fighting the good fight.

Pippen, if this doesn't meet your definition of cheating then perhaps you misunderstand the situation. Even after the board was completely filled in and he had no where else to move (increasing my lead from 30 to 50 points), he continued to pass and disagree with the score infinitely in order to exploit a technical glitch.

This is by any reasonable definition both 1) cheating and 2) theft of something that was rightfully mine. He lost. By a startlingly huge amount. But because of bad client design (tygem) and bad coding (tygem again), he was able to get a "win". He neither earned it nor deserved it.

If anyone finds this type of behavior reasonable at any level, I have every right to judge them as either severely morally flawed or a child, and it is my greatest pleasure in life not to associate with them, and it will also be their greatest pleasure not to know me.

I, personally, am assuming my opponent was a kid playing as it seems a childish thing to do.

when the rules are defined by the system of enforcement, then strictly speaking, Pippen is right, he wasn't cheating

your still thinking in terms of the spirit of the game itself. how dare you

Yes.

I feel bad to talk about that since I did such stuff once and since I understand Sam's point and since I also would say that such an behavior is really really bad stuff. Actually it's so bad, because it uses the rules against the game. It's actually worse than if someone just leaves, call you names or smashes the board, because of the humiliation factor: he beats you by playing along the rules, both of you knowing that it becomes a "who wants this win more" - game.

The rules allow you to fill all liberties as long as it's a legal move, the rules allow you to pass on and on (because by rule it has to be two passings in a row). I think that's a special feature of Go: If you really want to, you can win a lost game, just by refusing to end it and continue to play. At least in Chess such a way is impossible. And I somehow like that, because as you cannot force a man to be convinced of a truth as well you cannot force your Go opponent to lose...it has to be agreed upon.

I wonder if such stuff happens also in real tournaments. I mean can u imagine sitting in front of a guy that plays these "games"?

You may be able to force a win by exasperation online, but this won't work in a real-life tournament game. For one the other person won't lose because their iPad breaks, at best you can hope to prolong the game for ages. But mainly because they will call the referee who will tell you to stop being a jerk, and has the right to declare you lose if you don't.

What you can do is win by time. If there is overtime and your moves are so stupid they don't need to even think to answer or pass then you can't win by time either (and the referee may still make you lose for being a jerk). With sudden death it is possible to win like this, but again if you are being a jerk and filling in your own territory etc. the referee will probably tell you to stop or make you lose. The more plausible scenario is continuing to play sensible moves in a game you are hopelessly behind and winning on time, and this does happen, with varying views on how sporting such behaviour is.

The International Teams Tournament in London uses sudden death and I have lost games on time I was ~100 points ahead as my opponent continued to play (reasonable moves, not filling in territory junk). It annoys me a little bit (less that it used to), but as they aren't EGF rated I don't mind so much.