Learning from classical Chinese games

[tekesta]

Does anyone here believe that the games of late Ming Dynasty and early Qing Dynasty players such as Huang Longshi, Shi Xiangxia, and Fan Xiping, can be of benefit to the modern Go player - despite the difference in playing style? Much obliged in advance for your kind input.

[logan]

Yes, you can learn things. What is your goal?

[tchan001]

I would think that ancient games would be great for studying middlegame and endgame as the games were usually played without time limits. Tesuji and fighting are still important parts of the modern game of go. Whereas joseki and fuseki have evolved much more over time, so ancient games may not be as useful for modern play in these areas.

[skydyr]

As stated, they won't be good for learning opening theory and their joseki are mostly outdated at this point, but they were both vicious vicious fighters, and if nothing else, their games will give you a good idea of when and how counterattack is possible, and what aggressive yet barely-playable moves look like.

[tekesta]

Well, I like the fighting-intensive style of the old Chinese masters. I'm even tempted to play just like them and not pay attention to opening moves, but this would not be prudent if I want to play effective baduk. I still think that strong middle game and endgame skills are important for proficiency in the game, so I'll concentrate on developing these first.

Still, these days I usually lose games because I do not pay attention to the opening.

[tekesta]

I forgot to add the following. Would I be at a disadvantage if I studied mostly Chinese classical games, instead of concentrating on present-day pro games? I was under the impression that gaining experience with the old games would make it easier later on to learn other Go material, whether historical or modern.

I'd draw a comparison to learning Latin or Ancient Greek. Of course these languages are no longer in popular use, but they serve as ancestral forms of present-day languages.

[tchan001]

They key is probably to study games with good commentaries whether they are ancient or modern. Unless you are already a very high level player, you will benefit from the analysis of games which are commented by well respected commentators.

[oca]

such as Huang Longshi

Hi tekesta,

There are two free episodes(#30 and #31) in badukmovies that are about Huang Longshi :

https://badukmovies.com/episodes/master ... ?play=true
https://badukmovies.com/episodes/master ... ?play=true

[oren]

I forgot to add the following. Would I be at a disadvantage if I studied mostly Chinese classical games, instead of concentrating on present-day pro games? I was under the impression that gaining experience with the old games would make it easier later on to learn other Go material, whether historical or modern.

You will probably be at a disadvantage in the opening. Playing through modern opening games with commentary is more likely to help you get into middle game better.