My thinking when white had pincered black and they chose to play out the sequence in that area is that white's pincering stone is clearly too close to thickness. Instead of the slide, I kind of expected white to come back and protect that stone. Either way, it was a tough choice for white, but instead, black didn't invade until he had first strengthened white's weak stone.

His thinking was inconsistent. If he wanted to use the weakness of that stone to build, he should have stuck to that plan and built as much as possible. As it stands, white's position looks very much superior to black's. I think that white should make a tiger mouth now and let black connect out in gote.

I am confused by black's play here.

Why give me good shape on the top? I felt like either the extension to C14 or a knight's move to B15 was necessary here. Now I have a big corner and black still isn't alive.

I feel that my goal of making white live in gote is all but assured now.

I guess I have not many choices here. Probably, would have been better placed at C15. Now, the invasion is connected however - in hindsight - it is not that effective anymore (takes away ~ 12 points and gets maybe ~ 5 points), it ends in gote and white got a strong wall. I reckon I made a mistake here. White has still big potential in upper left - center area, however black's potential is also not bad. Thus, at least, I'm still in the game (hopefully...).

My plan worked! He has survived in gote! I have a wall and sente! Muhahahahaha!

But seriously, black has a lot more potential than me on this board. I need to invade or reduce now, or else be left behind in the points race.

I did consider other moves here, but I decided this was best. Other candidates were the reduction/moyo building move of O15, the reduction/invasion of P9, and grabbing the 3-3 invasion at R17. All will reduce black's potential, but I felt that an invasion here was a more solid way to start. I do not intend to follow the standard sequence here. For those unfamiliar with the Low Chinese, the standard corner sequence would be:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm30 Standard Sequence for Low Chinese invasion
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . 7 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . 2 . , 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

There is nothing wrong with this result on this board as far as I can tell. Actually, I quite like this result for white here, since black is undercut on the bottom and I still have the 3-3 open in the top right. So why not do this? Because I have played this, and played against this, so many times. Dozens of times. Maybe even over 100 times. This sequence is engrained into my mind - a map of stones carved in stone. It haunts me. When I see a Low Chinese it appears there like a ghostly image overlaid atop the board!

Basically, if I did this, there would be no adventure. I'm not playing this game just to win - I'm playing to learn and have fun. So, instead, I will try out one of the other moves that Kato Masao 9 dan suggests in "The Chinese Opening" to handle a Chinese framework. This knight's move is not asking to live locally. On the contrary, I am happy to simply play lightly with it. I may even give it up later. All I want to do is make sure that black is kept in check. He can make as many points as he wants, as long as I end the game with more of them.

As for the merits of this move: there is a sort of miai here of denying the corner enclosure for black and cutting into the bottom side of the board. The capping move at P9 also opens up as an option with a nice relationship to this stone. It is flexible from the options it gives.

At least, I think that's what Kato said - I said I wouldn't use resources on this game, so I won't look at that book until we are outside of Chinese Opening territory. In about 50 moves or so I'll be able to confirm if that's what the professional stated about this move. Perhaps my memory is bad and it's terrible in this situation, but then I'll get to learn something new. So even if I lose, I win in the long run.

And you can't defeat an opponent that will always win...

Muhahahaha!

As my invasion ended in gote, a move like is not a big surprise. The stage of moyo building contest is finally over . Let's contemplate over the current situation - My invasion is now connected and alive, however I think I have not made the most possible of it. As a result, the size of the white upper left side shrinked from around 30 to around 15 points, while my invasion gets some 5 points. What might be more important though: The invasion is connected to the D6 group with its weak point F6. Therefore, this group is now considerably stronger and even, if the white invasion escapes towards left direction, I do not have to fear that this group can get under severe attack.

The white territory can now be divided into 15 points lower left (quite secure), 15 points upper left corner (even more secure), 20 points upper left side (maybe reducable later) and another 12 points at upper side between K and N line (can be still invaded at M17). Including komi that's 68.5.

Black can get 20-30 points at upper right side+corner (depending whether white gets R17 or not), single-digit points from left side invasion and some potential of getting points in the center, which I cannot reasonably judge. If black e. g. gets the point K9, the box E5-J8 would amount 20 points. There are still more possible points at lower right side/corner thus the game seems still close.

There is quite little potential on lower side due to the open end F2, therefore I don't want to answer with the usual move O4. I also don't want to attach at Q5 which would make the invasion stronger. Therefore I secure the corner with R5 (giving another 12-15 points) and wait for white's further plans. One of the rather annoying moves would be on P9. However I am then playing Q7 which connects R9 and white will get busy not being separated.

Since white would in any case need further resources to make life for or connect the invasion, it would be a chance to further strengthen the center and either secure more territory somewhere or aim for invasions towards upper / upper-left direction.

My gut feeling is that can't be right, because if black had played there first, white would have been happy to play as a reduction, but now it's as if black tenukied. I'd rather take O4, except that the bottom is small because of F2. Perhaps attaching to the right of would have been better?

On the other hand, maybe this is making the best of a bad situation.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm30
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

These are the two main moves that I am debating between. I like the cap, but I wonder if perhaps I can strengthen my stone with this attachment. I don't want to be heavy, though. And I've already undercut the bottom, so damage there will not be that severe.

I'll probably cap. We'll see. I have some more reading to do...

So I could find nothing better than the cap. This move aims at doing everything that I want to do here. I even almost played this move directly. It is an important point on the board for both players. I must have it.

As for my opponent's response: I am unsure. He could split me at P7, but that gives him two elephant's eyes - not exactly ideal shape. He could shoulder hit move 30 at O4, but the bottom side of the board is still undercut so he'd need yet another move to prevent me from crawling under. Then still another move to prevent me from splitting at M4. So I'm not that worried about such a thing.

I have actually considered responding to O4 by coming out to O5 - which would strengthen the connection of my stones. I don't think that would make me heavy, as I have plenty of space to move and make shape all inside of black's territory - and I could still give up the two stones should the fight come to that.

My plan after a black nobi to N4 would be to jump under at the bottom and then it would be up to black to decide how to proceed. How would he attack me for profit?

Analysis of that prospect must be done.

The show must go on. My original thought of defending around R7 or Q7 is too passive. White can only destroy 6-7 points in that area, and my lower right corner with its enclosure is not really in danger.

If I omit Q11 white can play Q10 and push further:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm30 This would be rather terrible for b
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . 5 6 . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

After on Q11, white still has to think what to do further with P9/P5, while for black the invasion M17 starts becoming interesting.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . 1 . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

I feel like it's making the best of a bad situation and was a mistake. Black has to be losing because of E9, but I feel white's trying to be too stylish. after taking the time to play F2? If anything white's vindicating K4. Further, swapping the order of & , black's allowed to tenuki, so...

P5 starts feeling too resourceful to me after your cap.

Moyoaji knew my personal poison:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bc1 Come at me
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 4 . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Any move white makes is a concession to P5 P9 bad shape.

Loons, how about:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . 1 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

What would you have preferred for ?

The normal Chinese one space approach.

So why invade now? Because I feel black has made a statement with this last move. That statement is: I want the upper right. Whenever an opponent makes that sort of a statement, it seems fair to me to ask them back: "how much do you really want this part of the board?"

As for my other two stones, I have not abandoned them. This sequence should end in sente if black chooses the more common joseki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 Marked stones are 11 and 12.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 4 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O 6 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 8 . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If black chooses to take sente with the other joseki, then my result on the top side will be phenomenal.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm1 So much top potential...
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 7 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . 2 1 6 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Two corners? A wall facing the top? A high stone in between? That would mean I have all but solid points across the entire top of the board. More than worth sente.

So, why do I feel comfortable with this tenuki? Apart from the great likelihood of maintaining sente, I feel my stones have a sort of miai between connecting and one of them living independently. So let's say black comes back to the situation after the second joseki option and tries to split. If he splits I have many possible options. These are the two I'm looking at most seriously.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 I can make shape on the bottom.
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 4 . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 6 . . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Bcm1 I can try to keep connected
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 1 2 7 . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

More reading is required, as always. Some day I wonder if I'll ever be able to stop reading in go. Then I realize that that's like saying "I wonder if someday in my life I can stop breathing." That does happen, but it happens when life is over. And I don't want my go career to die anytime soon.

This may or may not be possible with very careful and deep reading, but my instinct screams that white is giving up whatever local advantage he had in the lower right in order to take 10-15 points because black might make territory somewhere. In addition, if black pressures the white floating stones in sente from the bottom, it should be relatively easy to end the attack with a move to consolidate the entire bottom.

Suffice to say I remain entirely unconvinced that A, which I've inserted into the quoted diagram, is black's best attack.

Everyone felt white was ahead previously. Why play in such a risky manner?

:w34: is another hit against my count, however it should end in gote.
I'm expecting a sequence like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm36
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Afterwards I have to decide what to do with the invasion. Since it's already late, I postpone this decision right now.

There is another possible sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wcm36
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 6 . O 4 X O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O , . X . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

White undermines my upper right position, however I threaten to invade more deeply into his top side. I would have to do it in a way that white doesn't get too much outside strength (in order to not support his invasion too much). I'm not sure if this is feasible but the good news is that I can decide about it later

After (added to the quoted diagram) it's not very clear what black got, aside from overconcentrated. White, on the other hand, just got a corner and ruined black's side to some degree. Whether white should play this right away is open to question, but I suspect that white could hold on to sente long enough to help his central group some and then follow up with it.

Last, but not least, now that we've got both players paranoid, I encourage everyone to pour on the commentary, relevant or not. We don't want them getting complacent