Oca, one heuristic that I think is pretty good and applies in this situation is to avoid playing on the second line in the opening, unless the move directly concerns the life / death of some groupoca wrote: I think one answer is "Common sense" / experience / intuition, but I would like to quantify that, just to help me becoming more confident when ignoring early end game move...
OCA's log
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Sennahoj
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Re: OCA's log
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Knotwilg
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Re: OCA's log
If 
was a clicko, then there are five highlights covered in below commentary.
1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
If was no clicko, you can improve a couple of stones from this move alone.
was a clicko, then there are five highlights covered in below commentary.1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
If
was no clicko, you can improve a couple of stones from this move alone.-
oca
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Re: OCA's log
Sure... If I do ask myself before each move weither this is really the best place to play right now, that may help me not to play on the second line...Sennahoj wrote:Oca, one heuristic that I think is pretty good and applies in this situation is to avoid playing on the second line in the opening, unless the move directly concerns the life / death of some groupoca wrote: I think one answer is "Common sense" / experience / intuition, but I would like to quantify that, just to help me becoming more confident when ignoring early end game move...
I know that some joseki contains second line move, but I think I should play them only if I understand them.
Here is an example of a move (
) in a joseki that I don't understand :[edit]
The whole joseki is :
Thanks a lot Knotwilg !Knotwilg wrote:If
1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
If
Atari blindness is really a surprise... I really missed that one !
is a clickoAnd now... the truth about
So would you say :
a) This is a strong secret move I saw in an old book
b) I wanted to try a sequence on the shimari but placed my stone under the wrong shimari stone... (and then cannot resist to play the move I wanted to play in the first place at
even if that is a non sense after 
) c) It's not me... it is my cat who played this strange move
Answer :
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
So here is my checklist for now...
[Thanks Knotwilg]
1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
[/Thanks Knotwilg]
[a few addition where I'm still doing bad]
6. Is the move a self atari
7. Can the opponent directly kill the whole group right after my play
8. can my opponent "broke my shape"
9. Is there a very painful cut
10. Is the move too small or too slow
11. if invading, does the invasion have a single chance to succed ? or is it dead from start...
12. does the move looks strange ? would I be surprised to see that move in a book ?
[/a few addition where I'm still doing bad]
Example of 6. played that week
Example of 7. played that week too
[Thanks Knotwilg]
1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
[/Thanks Knotwilg]
[a few addition where I'm still doing bad]
6. Is the move a self atari
7. Can the opponent directly kill the whole group right after my play
8. can my opponent "broke my shape"
9. Is there a very painful cut
10. Is the move too small or too slow
11. if invading, does the invasion have a single chance to succed ? or is it dead from start...
12. does the move looks strange ? would I be surprised to see that move in a book ?
[/a few addition where I'm still doing bad]
Example of 6. played that week
Example of 7. played that week too
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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Amelia
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Re: OCA's log
Shortage of liberties can be mean. You're not alone here 
Don't forget to count the liberties
My advice here would be to do many easy problems to train your eyes to see those. Have you ever tried GoChild? https://gochild2009.appspot.com
Don't forget to count the liberties
My advice here would be to do many easy problems to train your eyes to see those. Have you ever tried GoChild? https://gochild2009.appspot.com
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ez4u
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Re: OCA's log
What was your plan if Black played 89 at 90?oca wrote:Hi Amelia, thanks a lot for your comments
Hi Edlee, I can see thatis the same as
in post 310, both games where played in a row, so I didn't saw your comments before playing that game.
That said, I played yesterday another game which also went to crosscut at. I still choosed to atari at
for
).
I wonder if that was correct to atari this time or if extending (at 'a' ?) would be better in that position too.
So here is the sequence :
...
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
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Sennahoj
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Re: OCA's log
If you playoca wrote: Here is an example of a move (
at 
, you're pushing from behind + EdLee will come get you 
. I think the meaning of instead of directly 
is that if white doesn't respond in the corner, there is a chance that white can be attacked later:Actually I think black can make the exchange directly before extending. Then we see that
really has a lot of impact on the strength of the two groups --- black is a lot stronger compared with directly extending at 
, and white is not completely alive yet because of the weakness at the 2-2 point.-
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
Hi ez4u,ez4u wrote:oca wrote:Hi Amelia, thanks a lot for your comments
What was your plan if Black played 89 at 90?
Well, in that case, the plan would be that 90, I suppose I can live, but maybe this will give black too much influence...
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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Uberdude
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Re: OCA's log
Well that sequence you showed isn't the normal joseki, normally white blocks 2 at a, and as Sennahoj said if white doesn't but plays your 3 instead (which is another, albeit rarer, choice to avoid getting sealed in in exchange for taking a loss territorially) then black should extend at a first in sente before jumping with 4.oca wrote: Here is an example of a move (
So the next question is why is 2 good if white answers normally. The reason should become clear if we look at the continuation of black sealing with 4. If white now pushes out and cuts then black gets an atari at 8 in sente to make a strong wall due to the 2-3 exchange taking a liberty from white. White can then capture some stones with b, but black has a nice strong wall (for example the cut at c can be captured with a net).
What if black didn't play 2?
Now black has a weakness at a/b. This result is unconditionally worse than before. The only good thing about this variation is white doesn't have the choice of ignoring the 2 move in the corner to avoid being sealed in, but that's not usually a good choice (and this seal is not such a strong seal).
In fact it could be even worse for black, white now has the choice to fight like this (next a or b). This would be impossible if black had the x-y exchange because white would be in atari.
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oca
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Re: OCA's log
I did a few try with my list, I mean printed one, that I can keep with me while plying...1. When starting a fight, read at least the next two moves
2. when a basic move works, why try something fancy
3. read the ladder
4. avoid self cutting sequences (aka small gaps)
5. cure atari blindness (by paying attention when the board is crowded with stones)
6. Is the move a self atari
7. Can the opponent directly kill the whole group right after my play
8. can my opponent "broke my shape"
9. Is there a very painful cut
10. Is the move too small or too slow
11. if invading, does the invasion have a single chance to succed ? or is it dead from start...
12. does the move looks strange ? would I be surprised to see that move in a book ?
And I must say that it is very hard for me to keep focused on the list while playing.
I will try to simplify the list a bit...
So the new list is now :
1. IMMEDIATE DEATH
2. PAINFUL CUT
3. BROKEN SHAPE
4. FANCY MOVE
5. SLOW or SMALL MOVE
I hope I can stay focused on each move with that shorter list...
Converting the book Shape UP! by Charles Matthews/Seong-June Kim
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
to the gobook format. last updated april 2015 - Index of shapes, p.211 / 216
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EdLee
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Hi oca,oca wrote:it is very hard for me to keep focused on the list while playing.
Of course it is, for now.
Lists like this are merely the learning wheels when you first learn the bicycle.
Eventually, you get rid of them.
As you progress, you'll create and add more lists of your own.
Once you've digested (internalized) them,
once they've become part of your subconscious,
as natural as your breathing, then you get rid of them.
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tentano
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Re: OCA's log
It becomes a lot easier to keep track of things.
For example, I usually don't have to consciously remind myself of a potential self-atari or ladder. It got semi-automatic.
Sometimes, though ...
For example, I usually don't have to consciously remind myself of a potential self-atari or ladder. It got semi-automatic.
Sometimes, though ...