Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:25 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 60, W: 28 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . W . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . W O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:32 pm

You forgot to update your score again...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 61, W: 29 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:09 pm

You forgot to update your score again...

I'm really not used to area scoring especially not when adding the points manually.
next time i'm going to suggest territory scoring and altering the komi according to the plus and minus points.
that way only when a plus or minus point is played does the score need to be updated.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 61, W: 30 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . W X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Mon Jun 28, 2010 5:29 pm

Not for players:

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:08 am

I agree, territory scoring would be nice indeed. But that's for another game

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 62, W: 30 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ 1 . X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:23 am

It's not area scoring either. You get points for stones, territory, and prisoners. It's batoo scoring

EDIT: Actually, no you don't, it is kind of area scoring - ignore me

It's still somewhat different, but as close as makes no odds.

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:56 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 62, W: 31 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m W O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ X . X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

*edit. almost forgot to update the score again :lol:

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:04 am

My sealed move:

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:22 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 63, W: 31 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m O O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ X 1 X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:47 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 63, W: 32 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m O O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ X X X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O . . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . W . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:09 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 64, W: 32 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . | $$ | . . m O O X O X X . X | $$ | . . @ X X X X . . X . | $$ | . O O X . X . X X . . | $$ | X O X X X . X O O X X | $$ | . O X X O 1 . B O O O | $$ | . X @ X O . B X X O . | $$ | . . O O X B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . O . O . . O . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

k43r · Post by **k43r** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:10 am

Assume white had hidden stone at g5. Do we get information that it have been captured?

Assume white had hidden stone at f4. Does his e4, e5 stones die right now?

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:51 am

I resign (you captured the hidden move at G5.)

congratulations.

you used the Batoo rules way better then I did.
I played too much like a normal Go game.

now lets have a look at your thoughts... :twisted:

by the way,
If someone is interested in playing a Batoo game with me pm me.

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:39 pm

I already lost this game at post 45 (don't know the move nr.)
ending in gote and finding out the plus point is still sente for black, as well as the fact that the plus points on the top and left are not mine like I thought.

@gaius: I really like your comment just after I responded to your hidden move (post 49)

I'm also amazed at how different the thoughts are at some moves.

some additions to my hidden section about Batoo in post 62

about blacks play:
black played a solid (sometimes even over concentrated) game, evading anything complex.
This made him lose on the board by quite some points, However combining the solid board
position with the nice exploitation of the Batoo related rules was a good strategy.
(Black had a better more solid base, a useful hidden move, and got the most out of the plus points as was possible)

about my play:
My base stones left too much weakness, while looking nice, his hidden move was quite devastating to the position. (still I was ahead on the board though)
I treated this game as a game of Go with a few bonus features, but I thought way to lightly about the Batoo rules (me misinterpreting the plus points did not help either)
I usually play on the edge, leaving many apparent weaknesses that are less easy to exploit the they might look at first.
In this Batoo however this leads to nasty aji that makes exploiting the hidden move as well as the plus points possible for my opponent.
(I played more efficient Go, but lost big time on Batoo related parts)

I did enjoy the game and I think I picked up quite a few tips and tricks to help me in another Batoo game like this one, which I would like to play.

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:28 am

Thank you for the game, I enjoyed it too! Now I can go through all your hidden posts when I have time

My first impression: white had a very interesting thin-ish style based on much reading, which could work very well in normal go. But in Batoo, the hidden moves, plus points, and the value of base stones make it much harder to successfully play this way. A bit thick style (as you said, bordering on overconcentrated) looks like the best way to play - also, such a style makes it much easier to fight later on. The plus points are quite important, because the cash they give you enable to play so thickly without falling behind in points.

I was quite happy with my play, the only thing I really regretted was my move at post #49. Instead of this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 37, W: 24 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | p . . @ . . X O O . X | $$ | . . h 1 . . . B O . O | $$ | . . @ . . . B X X O . | $$ | . . m . . B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

I should have played this sequence (my hidden move is at 'h' in both diagrammes):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B: 37, W: 24 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X O X . | $$ | . . m . O . O X X . X | $$ | . . @ . . X X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . X . X 3 . . | $$ | p . . @ . . X O O 1 X | $$ | . . h . . . . B O 2 O | $$ | . . @ . . . B X X O . | $$ | . . m . . B . . O . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

That is fairly big, but it also reduces the threat of white's hidden move by a lot. I was worried that his next move would reduce the power of the follow up to my hidden move, but I shouldn't have been. He had no way to know where my move was, and any move he would play to defend would more than likely end up in a strange position. In short: I should have played even more solidly here.

Only when I got to play this sequence later on, I was really confident that I would win no matter what.

Life In 19x19

Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

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Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

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Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #2: freegame vs. gaius