Finding a modern basic joseki book

[RobertJasiek]

Quotation reference:
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 38#p185438

I am looking for a book that is a more updated version of 37 basic joseki from the elementary series. A book that ideally keeps to one volume and discusses the major joseki.

38 Basic Joseki has these disadvantages: it offers almost no explanations but leaves it to the reader to work them out by himself, it is outdated, the joseki selection is not representative for josekis actually occurring in games or especially beginner games.

I recommend my own book Easy Learning: Joseki
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/EasyLearningJoseki.html
because of its advantages: it teaches 72 basic josekis every joseki learner should know, its joseki selection is representative, the josekis are up to date, it offers easy learning with the idea that what cannot be learnt on about one page is omitted, the major tactical and strategic aspects of every joseki are explained, every important basic aspect of go theory needed for josekis is explained and illustrated by the josekis.

Since I have never seen any other single volume basic joseki book achieving more than half of these advantages well, I cannot recommend any other joseki book fitting your purpose. There are other modern, reasonably representative joseki selections, but they resemble 38 Basic Joseki in their teaching style too much, have a tendency of losing themselves in detailed tactics unsuitable for basic joseki learners and lack most explanation of go theory. What you do not need yet is a one volume dictionary of modern josekis; there are lots of such books but the learning resembles a thick 38 Basic Joseki style book and so is exactly what you do not want.

[Thuumhammer]

Would you say this book is appropriate for a 21 kyu who is currently reading "Tesuji" from the Elementary Series and Kageyama's "Lessons In the Fundamentals?"

[RobertJasiek]

It is not suitable for a 21 kyu (I recommend it for EGF 13 kyu or stronger), and I do not think that a 21 kyu should already learn more than a handful of short josekis with up to 6 moves. A 21 kyu should rather strive to become 15 kyu as quickly as possible by learning basic reading and the most important fundamentals. For the latter, First Fundamentals is much more suitable. For a 21 kyu, learning reading from books is more difficult, but Graded Go Problems for Beginners 1 or 2 might belong to the suitable books.

[Thuumhammer]

It is not suitable for a 21 kyu (I recommend it for EGF 13 kyu or stronger), and I do not think that a 21 kyu should already learn more than a handful of short josekis with up to 6 moves. A 21 kyu should rather strive to become 15 kyu as quickly as possible by learning basic reading and the most important fundamentals. For the latter, First Fundamentals is much more suitable. For a 21 kyu, learning reading from books is more difficult, but Graded Go Problems for Beginners 1 or 2 might belong to the suitable books.

Thank you, I'll take a look at those.

[Bill Spight]

I recommend my own book Easy Learning: Joseki
http://home.snafu.de/jasiek/EasyLearningJoseki.html
because of its advantages: it teaches 72 basic josekis every joseki learner should know, its joseki selection is representative, the josekis are up to date, it offers easy learning with the idea that what cannot be learnt on about one page is omitted, the major tactical and strategic aspects of every joseki are explained, every important basic aspect of go theory needed for josekis is explained and illustrated by the josekis.

I haven't read the book, but if it delivers what Robert says, it sounds wonderful.

[jeromie]

I thought about recommending Robert's book myself; it sounds like a good fit for what you want. The joseki explanations in the book are clear, and his chapters that focus on important concepts are very helpful for learning joseki principles. At the very least, you should check out the sample chapters on Robert's website to see if it might be what you are looking for.

I started to write more about the book here, but realized the length of my post was straying into review territory. I'll post a more detailed collection of thoughts in the book review forum shortly.

[snorri]

A 21 kyu should rather strive to become 15 kyu as quickly as possible by learning basic reading and the most important fundamentals.

I agree, in this example. But this reminds me of something I've been thinking about recently. If one's goal is to become X kyu or Y dan---whether it is a near-term or long term goal---the player is often asking the fastest way to get there.

The fastest way from complete beginner to, say, 1d may not be to take the fastest way to 10k, followed by the fastest way from 10k to 5k, followed by the fastest way from 5k to 2k, followed by the fastest way from 2k to 1d. This may in fact not add up to the fastest way from beginner to 1d.

The reason I pose the question is that it may be possible to get from beginner to 10k very quickly by deliberately ignoring things that are not strictly necessary to play at a 10k level. One might even settle for doing things completely wrong if it doesn't matter at that level. But then this choice might slow the player down later, due to having to unlearn bad habits.

[RobertJasiek]

it may be possible to get from beginner to 10k very quickly by deliberately ignoring things that are not strictly necessary to play at a 10k level.

Until 15k, learning (more than a few) josekis can be ignored deliberately because weaker players have lots of much more important things to learn. 15k is a first milestone. From 15k to 10k, I am not sure if everybody must follow the same path, but there is much potential for avoiding learning things to be unlearnt later.

IMX, there are beginners making it to 15k in no time and others for whom it is a major effort. They do not need the most efficient long-term plan but the right clues for reaching 15k as quickly as possible. So, IMO, first let everybody become ca. 15k. Above this level, your idea of long-term efficiency become more relevant. Although I do not suggest following the idea dogmatically, I share the basic idea that long-term learning should be reasonably efficient.

[Bill Spight]

If one's goal is to become X kyu or Y dan---whether it is a near-term or long term goal---the player is often asking the fastest way to get there.

The fastest way from complete beginner to, say, 1d may not be to take the fastest way to 10k, followed by the fastest way from 10k to 5k, followed by the fastest way from 5k to 2k, followed by the fastest way from 2k to 1d. This may in fact not add up to the fastest way from beginner to 1d.

True. And the best way to learn differs from person to person. There are many ways up the mountain.

The reason I pose the question is that it may be possible to get from beginner to 10k very quickly by deliberately ignoring things that are not strictly necessary to play at a 10k level. One might even settle for doing things completely wrong if it doesn't matter at that level. But then this choice might slow the player down later, due to having to unlearn bad habits.

This is one reason that I tell people to study everything. Also, to avoid getting bad habits you should expose yourself to play and players with no bad habits. Study pro games.