Please, anyone can give me a review about this game? (14k)

[DiogoBarbosa]

Hello, everybody!
Please, anyone can help-me with a review about this game?
I'm black, I lost by 1.5, but I would like to know how can I could get more than this difference ^^



Thank you a lot, and sorry for take your time!

A good week for all!

[Kirby]

Play B18.

[Boidhre]

Too tired for a full review sorry, just one thing really struck me in the early moves, for you need to push up at E16, leaving two stones against three stones like that is not good.

$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O O O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 X X 1 . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 O O O . X . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 2 X X 1 . . . . X . . . X . X . O . |
$$ | . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

For example. White can tenuki after but they'll get quite a bit worse result in the corner if they do that (though they will still live). This is a lot better result in the corner than in-game.

[EdLee]

Hi DiogoBarbosa,

You don't want to tenuki. You want to connect up -- E16.
If you link up there, then you have a powerful wall -- that has tremendous value.
But if you let W push out there, then W destroys it. Big difference.

Good idea. Maybe E16 better shape.

You copy W's -- he expands his moyo, you expand yours.

Very strange. Why are you backing off ?! Block, o12 !

, Same problem as -- Zero fighting spirit -- you continue to back up and let W push you around.

Especially , of course you hane K11 !

Same problem. Hane J11 !

Both sides are in a pushing, contact fight -- both sides want to get ahead and block the other as soon as possible!

Now W copies your soft moves ( ... ).

good.

Why are you fighting this ko. Just atari at A12 and connect.

Unbearable. You are still backing up every time. Block at B5 !

In the future, every time you want to play an empty triangle, STOP.
Pause. For at least 1 minute. That's 60 seconds. Take a deep breath.
Look for a better move. If you absolutely cannot find a better move to save your life,
then OK, play the empty triangle. Often, especially at these levels, there are better moves.

Very small. Almost a pass. Especially if you know you can just atari A12.

Still no fighting spirit. At least K6!

Your favorite shape, this empty triangle.
Before this, you want to first take advantage with the atari H5 in sente.
W must connect at G4. See note at again.

Notice when you atari now, W has two choices: connect at G4 or remove the 2 stones.
If you atari directly at , W has no choice but to connect -- in some cases, this can make a big difference.

113 Small. S17 much much bigger.

153 Mistake. You think about why this is wrong. There are a few reasons.

[Knotwilg]

At the end, instead of passing, Black can still win the game. How?

[Mike Novack]

At the end, instead of passing, Black can still win the game. How?

At 16 kyu, Diogo may need a hint. Just saying "can win" should point to the correct part of the board since everywhere else clearly totally settled. But playing for a seki outcome in a semai might be more advanced than 16 kyu can visualize.

Diogo, in the upper left corner, you assumed that your two stones are dead. Is there a move you could have made there (instead of passing) that would have made it impossible for white to have captured your stones? That white group has no outside liberties.

[Knotwilg]

I prefer to let people experience the whole epiphany in this case. There are not so many options on the board. They can always ask for a hint.

[Kirby]

I prefer to let people experience the whole epiphany in this case. There are not so many options on the board. They can always ask for a hint.

In that case, please disregard my first response to this thread :-p

[Mike Novack]

I prefer to let people experience the whole epiphany in this case. There are not so many options on the board. They can always ask for a hint.

To which I would respond, that one too difficult at this level. Note that neither player saw it (white didn't see that another move was necessary, not to live, but to live with points).

I would leave the epiphany to the general principles in involved (like eye vs no eye and eye vs eye). It's not just the first move that matters. There is still a lot for Diogo to go "aha" about even knowing that the first move is B18 while studying the "what happens next" part of it.

[Uberdude]

I prefer to let people experience the whole epiphany in this case. There are not so many options on the board. They can always ask for a hint.

To which I would respond, that one too difficult at this level. Note that neither player saw it (white didn't see that another move was necessary, not to live, but to live with points).

I would leave the epiphany to the general principles in involved (like eye vs no eye and eye vs eye). It's not just the first move that matters. There is still a lot for Diogo to go "aha" about even knowing that the first move is B18 while studying the "what happens next" part of it.

To which I would respond, there is a difference between finding a move when you don't know there is a working move existing, and being told there is something working and then looking hard and finding it. Many people, myself included, can solve in tsumego many positions which they neglect or oversee in real games because they don't know there is an answer there.

[Mike Novack]

[
To which I would respond, there is a difference between finding a move when you don't know there is a working move existing, and being told there is something working and then looking hard and finding it. Many people, myself included, can solve in tsumego many positions which they neglect or oversee in real games because they don't know there is an answer there.

Yes of course.

But are you suggesting that this tsumego would be one for the 14-16 kyu level? With just the information "there is a solution"? The problem is the type of solution. Not having at hand a set of problems designed for the 14-18 kyu level I can't say for certain that there aren't any examples in that set where the solution involves "live in seki" and "one eye vs none"/ "one eye vs one eye". But somehow I doubt it.

I think we ned to be sensitive to the (current) level of the people asking questions of us.

[Uberdude]

[
To which I would respond, there is a difference between finding a move when you don't know there is a working move existing, and being told there is something working and then looking hard and finding it. Many people, myself included, can solve in tsumego many positions which they neglect or oversee in real games because they don't know there is an answer there.

Yes of course.

But are you suggesting that this tsumego would be one for the 14-16 kyu level? With just the information "there is a solution"? The problem is the type of solution. Not having at hand a set of problems designed for the 14-18 kyu level I can't say for certain that there aren't any examples in that set where the solution involves "live in seki" and "one eye vs none"/ "one eye vs one eye". But somehow I doubt it.

I think we ned to be sensitive to the (current) level of the people asking questions of us.

It's worth noting the OP is an OGS 14-16k which is quite a lot stronger than most 16k. Although the game did suffer from the common ddk "my big half versus your big half" style the play was pretty decent and I think solving that problem is well within Diogo's grasp. Plus I generally think it's better to challenge people rather than assume they are dumb. That he played some moves inside that corner suggest he thought there was something there. In fact it was rather strange he played the last move there are then accepted them as dead in scoring, this means he lost 1 point there, and another from losing the ko, to lose 2 points in total so if he had won the ko and not died in gote he would win by 0.5 rather than lose by 1.5.

[oren]

I think we ned to be sensitive to the (current) level of the people asking questions of us.

And really you should stop trying to make assumptions about what people can and can't do based simply on level. Give someone a chance first and then a hint.

[DiogoBarbosa]

Everybody, Thank you a lot!
EdLee, I will try not to be coward,and do not make useless backing off, I will work in my spirit of fight to get more territory and influence.And sorry by Empty Triangle xP
Knotwilg, I can see the Seki now, thank you.In the game I couldn't read it, I think that I will improve my reading board with the time, I'm practicing Tsumego every day.

Thank you all a lot, all posts helped me a lot. I am very happy ^^

[Knotwilg]

I think we ned to be sensitive to the (current) level of the people asking questions of us.

And really you should stop trying to make assumptions about what people can and can't do based simply on level. Give someone a chance first and then a hint.

Hi guys,

I didn't want to be hostile towards Mike's approach. There are times when I offer the exercise in a more guided fashion, there are times when I leave it more open. He wanted to close down the answer in this case, which can be fine at times. When in doubt, I prefer keeping it open. If the OP/student is curious enough, he will ask for a hint anyhow. But hey, it's no big deal.

We can't agree on everything

(and Kirby, I had missed your give away which made all of this pointless )