Uberdude wrote:13 hane under as you have the ladder?
It hadn't crossed my mind. Why is that choice better?
In my experience and looking at it now, I don't notice anything special about it. The ladder breaker in the top right seems to offer adequate compensation for white. And the variation where black ataris at c8 is complicated and unclear that it's an improvement over the simpler joseki.
Also, do you have a chance to look at the rest of the game?
Even if has its weakness, is almost wasting a move in this crucial fight. Playing at the elephant's eye looks much more effective. Next Black will turn or cut.
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 5 . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 2 . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 O X 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O O X . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Wow, that looks so reasonable and satisfying for black. It isn't consistent with my greedy goal of cutting and being bloodthirsty so I didn't give it enough consideration. I wonder how to fix that?
With the alternative for 73 at 1 below, what happens after 4?
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O O X . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Uberdude wrote:13 hane under as you have the ladder?
It hadn't crossed my mind. Why is that choice better?
In my experience and looking at it now, I don't notice anything special about it. The ladder breaker in the top right seems to offer adequate compensation for white. And the variation where black ataris at c8 is complicated and unclear that it's an improvement over the simpler joseki.
My understanding is that normally white should have the ladder to play that outside attachment as the joseki where you ladder 2 stones is somewhat nice for you. Yes a double high approach against top right is nice for a ladder breaker, but it's not devastating like a broken shape through a shimari one.
IMO 33 is the losing move. It should have been played H5 instead, because then White has to connect his lower stones and that gives Black a chance to develop his three stones in the middle by pushing White's four stones which again would deny White to get easy territory on the right side (which effectively happened).
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 5 . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . 2 . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 O X 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X . . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O O X . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Wow, that looks so reasonable and satisfying for black. It isn't consistent with my greedy goal of cutting and being bloodthirsty so I didn't give it enough consideration. I wonder how to fix that?
With the alternative for 73 at 1 below, what happens after 4?
$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . X 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . O . O X . X X X X X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . . O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X X X X X . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X . O . O O X . O . . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------