#231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

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ez4u
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Post by ez4u »

BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? This game began on Feb. 26 last year. :)
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

ez4u wrote:BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? ...
I think that we have set that record. :D
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skydyr
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Re: Kirby's Study Journal

Post by skydyr »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
ez4u wrote:BTW, what is the record for slow play in a Malkovich? ...
I think that we have set that record. :D
I think you have us beat by two days... my ongoing game with Tim82 started on the 28th.
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Kirby »

I guess white's best chance is to try to kill the black center group.
be immersed
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

Bump! :) (This is slightly cheeky, given the speed of my play in this game...)
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by bayu »

Oops, the handle of my axe is halfway rotten :o

Keep going, kibitzers are still lurking.
If something sank it might be a treasure. And 2kyu advice is not necessarily Dan repertoire..
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

drmwc wrote:Bump! ...
Uhhh...am I black or white? It's been a long time...

For observers:
I'm black, of course. :razz:

If I save my center group, I'm irrevocably ahead.

My general plan is to play something around the shaded area, with three possible threats:
1) Starting a liberties race of his K16 group vs my center group, which I believe I win.
2) Connecting my center group to my upper right group
3) Covering the cut at M10 so that 6 is a connection southward.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . ? ? . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O ? ? . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X W . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 7 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X 6 . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
For reasons mentioned in my previous post.
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Uberdude
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Uberdude »

l7? If black then plays another move against k16 group then can white kill the whole bottom left? It's a lot bigger. And if black answers white could m18 or o13.
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
I must keep black separated. B6 looks quite strong against the big bit of group - I can abandon my littler group if I get the big one.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm101
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O 1 X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . 6 . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . 3 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
It's gonna get bloody soon. :rambo:
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Uberdude
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Uberdude »

I'm not so sure drmwc can kill with b6, particularly as he played L9 rather than L7 and that means black has more potential for an eye around k/L6. I wonder if Joaz has even worried about the life of his group, from his comments it seems not, but I shouldn't ask him about that yet in case drmwc wants to keep that dagger up his sleeve and poke around in the centre a bit first before showing his true intentions.

Here's one possible variation I looked at to show how L9 is less good at killing. There are many branching possibilies, this is just to show the gist. In some ways it would actually have been nice if white could have got L7 and persuaded black to cut at K7 because then white could have got the j7 atari for k6 extend exchange which reduces black's eyeshape a lot.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm107
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 8 X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . 9 . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . 0 O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . 2 O 4 6 O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . 3 5 O 7 . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm117
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O 9 O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . 8 O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X 2 . 0 . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X 3 X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O 5 6 4 X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . 7 . X O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O 1 O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm127
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O . X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O O O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . X O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X X . X . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X O X . . . . 2 1 . . X . X . . |
$$ | . O O X X X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O . X O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X O O O O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . O O O O . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
White could see if any moves on the outside, such as m9 or m8, alter the life and death of the group below (e.g. does it allow m6 to be at l6) and if so see if he can find a way to get such a move in sente by making black capture the upper middle group, and then go for the kill.
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by drmwc »

I believe I can live withe the littler group now. I will leave this in reserve.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . 1 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . 3 4 . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 7 X 8 . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O 5 6 . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . 0 . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . 2 1 . . 3 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O 5 X 6 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . O X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O O X X . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O O X . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . X . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
The sequence shown is the best for me of the possible options - black should resist more strongly. If this were to happen, black would have two weak groups in the centre. For example, a better option for black may be this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ -----------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O X . O O X . O . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . O O X X O . O X X . X . X . |
$$ | . . . . . X O . X X O . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . . . O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O X . X O 2 X . . O . . . |
$$ | . X . X . . . . . . X O . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O . . X O . . . . X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O X X X , X . . . O , O . . |
$$ | . O X O . O O O . O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X X O . . . O X . . X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . O O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . X X X X O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . O . . O . O . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . O O . O X X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------[/go]
Black lives, and saving my group in gote is unappealing. Having said all this, I think there's a reasonable chance the first tow diagrams may appear if I take this line. Should I assume mu opponent will make a mistake if I meander down that route?

I prefer not to, so my move will attack the other black bit. It can just about live, but if I can get some sente move in the centre, the options above become stronger.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: #231 drmwc vs Joaz Banbeck

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Bump
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