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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #21 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:28 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, so I debated between this and trying to deal with MHO's move directly. Anything direct seemed passive and 'turning thickness into territory'-ish. However, at the moment I think I can gain on the left as fast or faster than he can hurt me on the right. This continues to work with my other stones, so it looks okay to me. It's also sente, because it threatens to seal white's corner stone with a knight's jump. I don't think he can allow that, because it gives me a thick wall spanning nearly all of the north, so, I assume he'll finally respond. After that, I can decide between responding to his stone directly, splitting it off from his bottom right, or worrying about the bottom or right. All of those areas seem like good places for me to play, so I'll take this here and look forwards to my largish potential.

Let's say white has 20 in the bottom right, 10 in the top right, and 5-10 komi. 35-40 versus my framework plus this potential. Obviously W has potential as well, but I think mine is developing faster than his. 2 of his corners can be invaded at will, and the bottom right has enough aji to not be entirely his. As an aside, I know it's not supposed to be good to put all of your eggs into one moyo, and I can't count on getting much of the moyo into territory. However, I'm going to get some out of it, and there are weaknesses to exploit elsewhere. If I get 20 up top (Seems fairly easy) I can probably be content.

As an aside, this game illustrates some of my strengths and weaknesses as a player. I play some odd things in the opening, focusing on direction of play instead of territory and such. Lately, I have often considered myself even or a little ahead by move 30 or 50. However, when the close fighting happens, I feel like I'm outplayed and lose huge swaths. The fighting has mostly been avoided so far, but when it occurs, I expect MHO will have the advantage. I need to play tricky and be ahead by then so maybe I can eke it out. Also, I think sometimes lately I've been too willing to sacrifice stones and groups in unnecessary exchanges.


By the way, Fwiffo, thanks again. This game is already quite exciting.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #22 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:42 am 
Gosei
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

OK, I really need to tend to this now. I do feel like I've fallen behind, but I think the middle is going to get pretty small.

I don't like the high response generally, but I think I need it here. If he plays C12, he's going to push me into the middle, which is not what he wants.

Hmm, those two black stones in the bottom left seem less happy... Maybe I've got a target for later when more development has happened in the middle.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #23 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:25 am 
Gosei

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KGS: dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have a hard time believing that this is better than making a double pincer on the star point stone at a.

Unfortunately I have no variations or anything to back this up :) It just seems like there's got to be a better use of getting an extra stone in this corner.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #24 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:21 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was torn here on a couple of options. First, I wanted to push white's single stone out of my framework, starting to wall it off. However, that's a really inefficient way to make territory. Second, I wanted to jump south in the top left, forcing MHO to take fourth line (!) territory in order to expand my framework even further (cut mad scientist laughter). Third, I considered grabbing a base in the south, which would help the aji of my trapped stone some. Let's look at these options in a pretty picture.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . c . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, 'a' seems inefficient, letting MHO have too large a reduction for too cheap. 'b' is tempting, but it's playing with fire. Whoever gets it first is really happy, but his group is currently loose enough that I could probably deal with it if I need to. Taking 'b' would make it less loose, getting it closer to actual territory. If I'm making the wrong move, 'b' is probably the right one, though. 'c' is also really tempting. It gets me a base and stability, and threatens to extract the aji stone. The problem with it versus 'b' or 'd' is that, while it's fair reverse sente, it's not double-sente like 'b' and 'd'. I'm going for 'd' so that I can up the ante. Rather than block him small with 'a', I'll attack him on a massive scale with 'd'. His stone may run, forcing me to block where I want to. He cannot sacrifice it entirely, because that gives me a huge side/middle/top. I figure, he's likely to play lightly, live inside or escape, but I'll get a lot in exchange.

Actually, I take it back. I was decided on 'd', but 'b' is just as sente as its predecessor is. He's not really solid enough on that side to be a threat, and taking 'b' makes 'd' that much huger. Let's lay it all on the line and go for the gold. I'll take 'b' then hope to get 'd'.


This is where we over-think, and talk ourselves into a bad decision.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #25 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:50 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I guess I'll take fourth line territory. The moyo does look intimidating, but it's still very poke-able.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #26 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:55 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


All right, I placed my bet, time to watch the horses run. I said I'd take 'b' then 'd' in my previous commentary, and this is the second half. Thankfully, the west isn't really solid territory yet. Of course he'll get something there, and more than I'd like, but both of his corners are open, and that keeps the prior exchange fair. I've given him so much starter-territory, let's see if I can play a good enough framework game to outstrip it.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #27 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:04 pm 
Lives in sente
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I really wonder why no one wanted the upper left corner.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #28 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:07 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X 8 . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Honestly, I have no idea how do do proper reductions. This is just a probe; I'm looking for aji.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #29 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:19 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 9 . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Fwiffo: that was really unexpected. Obviously you had to do something inside, and sprinkling stones lightly seems good style, but I would have taken the shoulder hit over this in a heartbeat.

Harleqin:
I was really concerned that taking it would hurt my framework. I've been trying to play in a way to keep the 3-3 open for me, but something else seemed higher priority. Now I think I could jump in without hurting my top at all, but attacking his reducing stone seemed too massive in scale to resist. When would have been the right time for either player to take it? Obviously someone probably will soon, but I was curious about when you would have recommended it?


So, I considered playing the hane under, the hane on top, or extending upwards. If I can handle the crosscut okay, I should hane. I strongly considered the under-hane, but I think that's too passive. His stone has nowhere to go, so I'll force the cross-cut. This deep into my turf, surely I'll come out well-compensated. I expect MHO will sacrifice this stone, and perhaps a few more, but will get a working reduction. I am betting the game on him not reducing me enough to win. If our soldiers die, they will be told of for years to come.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #30 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:25 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X 0 . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

All I can say is that caps and shoulder hits on fourth-line stones are usually "wrong feeling". This felt trickier. I think my reading is stronger, so it's to my advantage to make things tricky. I had this counter-hane in mind. Now that I've sown the seed, I'm going to slow way, way down to read out the best possibilities. Gotta stay light...

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:32 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, he successfully led the game into one of my weak areas. That said, I'm sure I'll learn from this fight, even if I lose it. I considered the double-hane, but decided that there wasn't sufficient reason to stretch myself that thinly. I can play solidly, hane when I can, and help MHO build cutting points. At least, that's the plan. Man, this is a fun game. Lately, my games on KGS have been lacking something that this game has.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #32 Posted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:58 pm 
Gosei
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In response to Chew and regarding the bottom right corner:

I believe the pincer you played is not good in that situation. However, tenukiing the contact play is far, far worse. The correct continuation is to play the cross-cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . 6 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ignoring a contact play is a huge huge loss. However, I do not know if fwiffo's clamp is good or not. My personal preference would be to hane on the 4-4 point instead, or even just nobi to the 3-4 point.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . 1 a . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.


This post by Dusk Eagle was liked by: Chew Terr
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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #33 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:48 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
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KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . 2 . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I went to bed with too many go ideas rushing through my mind, which meant I got very little sleep. Of course, in my mind, everything is all distorted and weird.

Image
Fwiffo's mind: "Turn off ALL garbage compactors on the detention level!"

Ahem. Anyhow, I'm not just sprinkling stones about randomly here. Or, at least, I hope not. I'm taking care to:
a) Stay light. Make connections loose enough that I can easily sacrifice some of the stones to help others.
b) Try to take advantage of any aji in black's position
c) Try to map out some kind of shape to aid in running/living

Now that I look at it, I think I've overplayed with that L16 stone. Maybe a shoulder hit is better. Now I feel a bit of a pinch.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #34 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:55 am 
Tengen
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It's a sequence you might not want to look at (5 more moves), but it's not that uber and it may be horribly flawed. I just hate respond to peeps like that (too much, often connecting is better):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O 7 . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . 6 2 4 X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And this one you almost definitely don't want to look at unless you want a spoiler:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . 2 . X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . a O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Big, no? "a" and "b" both work for Black.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #35 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:01 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . O 3 X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I almost played an attachment to his stone. But I think that's making things more complicated than they need to be. I think that the crosscut that would provide could be a boon to him, so I'd rather deny it. Still feeling pretty okay about this situation.


Edit: Okay topazg, just let us know when we can read them =)

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #36 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:04 am 
Tengen
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The top one is definitely viewable now, the bottom one is my analysis of the lower right corner. So you can if you want, but really should agree it between yourselves that you can both look first I think, or you can leave it until the lower right has played out a bit further :)

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #37 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:18 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
topazg:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O 7 . 5 . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . 6 2 4 X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 8 . 3 . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Followed by something like this, with a chase that nets me territory on both sides but probably lets white run to safety? Yeah, I guess that would probably be safe, and fine. I think I kind of turned on my 'Play thick and safe, and weather the storm' mode. I'm curious to compare this diagram with whatever happens over the next ten or so moves.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #38 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:10 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
Location: California
Liked others: 53
Was liked: 171
Rank: Out of practice
GD Posts: 1104
KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This seems OK, though it's a thin string of stones, which is usually not the best. If he tries to cut or peep, I will dodge by sacrifice. For instance:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . 2 . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |[/go]

I haven't read very thoroughly - I didn't get much sleep - but the previous several moves means that my group is harder to cut even though it's still light. He can spend moves to capture a stone here and there, but I get out with the rest.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #39 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 12:20 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . 5 . . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Part of me is a little hesitant to play this, but the logical bits like it. It takes away any hope of eye he has here, and is firmly connected to one group of my stones or another. It also mostly captures some of the ones above, making some of my territory solid. It leaves him with a string of one-space jumps deep within my framework. In essence, I'm playing this move because it starts taking points while continuing the attack.

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 Post subject: Re: 57. Chew Terr (5k) vs Fwiffo (4k) Open
Post #40 Posted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:37 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 1435
Location: California
Liked others: 53
Was liked: 171
Rank: Out of practice
GD Posts: 1104
KGS: fwiffo
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoners - W: 0, B: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O . . O X X O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . X . . X 6 . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

OK, I'm really on tilt right now. All my turn-based games are going badly, and so is this one. I need to get back to basics.

Often when I'm anxious to get stronger I start trying to do too much and make things too complicated. And that's what I'm doing here, and that's what I've been doing in my other games. Sometimes it's a sign that I'm trying to integrate new knowledge, and I have to get a little weaker before I can get stronger.

Other times it just means I haven't gotten enough sleep. I think that's more likely here.

Anyhow, getting back to basics. Connect against a peep. Basic. And hey, look how strong my stones get.

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