Greetings, Forum!

TL;DR: If you've had online go anxiety, how did you identify what caused it and how did you get over it?

I've got pretty heavy online go anxiety and I'm trying to get to the root of it. It's the typical story for me: I love playing games in person, even if I'm losing left and right. As soon as I get online, I panic and resign about 100 moves or so in.

I do tsumego regularly and the main reason I want to get over my anxiety is less about advancement and more about just wanting to play the game. I don't get to play in person very often, so not panicking about playing online would help me play when it's more convenient for my schedule.

I initially thought it was the clock that drove me to freakout levels but I play timed games in person with little trouble. The number of moves before I bail seems to be the only real consistent thing. After about 100 moves, if I make a bad play, I throw the game.

I find that I have next to no anxiety on DGS, so that is an anomaly. DGS is fun and definitely fills a niche for me but I'd like to have real-time games as well. The lack of anxiety on DGS makes me think it might be community related but I've had little conversation with any of my opponents and no bad encounters yet.

I tend to play on IGS and DGS only as I restrict my online interaction to servers where I an play using Free (Libre) Software. I've tried Tygem but the players there seemed overly aggressive and I couldn't keep up with the game.

I also thought it could be because the games I play are rarely evenly matched. I'm either 5+ stones ahead or behind when the game starts. At the very least, those games seem to trigger the anxiety much sooner than an even match.

One thing I intend to try when I get a larger block of time is to try multiple games in a row and see if that helps things go a little more smoothly.

Sorry for the mostly unstructured rambling, I'm just trying to think through the problem.
What are some ways I can identify my problems and resolve them?

Thanks!
cmh

Hm. It seems that the only place you play real-time games online is IGS, and your profile says that you have a 17k rating there. I'd like to point out that 17k tends to be a particularly strange place on IGS, and it is not unusual to find players quite a bit stronger playing at that level (sandbaggers). Just speculation, but playing against a significantly stronger player without knowing it might lead to a sense of hopelessness about your game, which might contribute to OGA. Another thing is the lack of personal contact on IGS. Nobody ever reviews games there, and hearing anything non machine-generated is rare there too. My suggestion would be to try OGS, where you don't need any software besides a browser to play. The community there is lively, welcoming and friendly (IMO) and you might find it less anxiety-inducing. Good luck!

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Patience, grasshopper.

TL;DR: The source is you. Play a game.


I'm not a psychologist but I once heard the phrase that you should face your fears, when you wish to overcome them. I also think that especially OGA is a very irrational "fear", so that you cannot really battle it logically. It's just the feeling of uneasiness which you can contribute to a lot of different aspects like rank obsession, fearing to lose, fearing to look bad and such - which are again pretty much irrational themselves, since there is no learning or advancing in general without failing, respectively some setbacks.

I got really fed up with OGA after a while. I wanted to become stronger and playing is an essential part of it, so I forced myself to hit the play button and played a game. Just one and then leave it. Next day or the day after that another, slow and steady. That's also why I prefer Tygem nowadays. Its automatching is a lot smoother than the one on KGS and you get a game a lot faster.

Another thing I "learnt" over time was coping with dumb losses, which also helped playing with a calmer mind. When I notice that I'm overthinking a loss again, I force myself to think of something else and when that doesn't cut it, I give myself a mental prep talk, garnished with a lot of really strong words, so the message comes through. I guess it is all about buildung up confidence again. A little hurt after a bad game is good, you will want to prevent that hurt next time and hopefully play better. But the prevention shouldn't go as far as not playing anymore.

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My "guide" to become stronger in Go

For me, my OGA seems to have some connection to depression.

Playing Real Life games is easier for me, as are correspondence games. Yet, slow progress and sometimes losing in real dumb ways feed back to my depression. Yeah, I know “it’s all ego problems”, but nevertheless sometimes I think of giving up Go.

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

I think that caring too much about rank level was what did me in. Not sure if I exactly 'got over it' because I stopped playing online for over a year, partly because of the phobia. When I came back, the problem wasn't so bad. I just had to remember not to care so much about rank (I can always boost it when it sags by killing a couple of bots, anyway) and not beat myself up over making stupid moves. Everybody does it.

For me it's always been rank / embarrassment.

When I play at the Go Club in person there's level of socializing and sportsmanship that doesn't exist for me on IGS or KGS. I make less blunders on a physical board than a digital one, and when there is a silly, game-destroying blunder on either side we're usually polite enough to go "Are you sure you really want to do that?" and gracious enough to go, "Oh, my bad, thank you very much!" instead of just letting a game implode over something as silly as losing your place because the waitress asked you if you wanted a refill on your drink. The club has always been a better learning environment as far as Go goes, though the unforgiving silence of the Internet might better prepare me for a proper tournament.

To get past this I have to focus on the purpose of the exercise (practice and learning) over the metrics (getting ranked for wins and losses) and the embarrassment of having your blunders immortalized on a game server. Basically I have to say, "Screw it! Whether I win or lose and whether I play excellent or terrible go I'm here because discipline is more important."

Marty Lund

for me, its a feeling of panic and not wanting to feel flustered if I misclick, or press a wrong button and can't figure out how to undo whatever setting change I just made in some sort of timely manner. I feel the pressure of my invisible opponent waiting impatiently for me. and I'm not a fast typist (and not a good speller), which just adds to the pressure if I need to interact with my opponent.

the actual game part, or the ranks don't usually bother me at all. except, I do prefer to win, and get frustrated with myself when I make silly mistakes that I should know better and quickly fall behind. (even though I preach to others about not worrying about winning or losing and just play to learn )

playing turn-based games are easier, and much less pressure, but even though I have the time to think about my moves, I still play them without thinking too much

This subject has often been discussed. I too are heavily influenced by online go stress. I remember choosing the auto match on kgs and having my heart race while the searching tone sounded.

What I have done is that I mainly study by myself and when I can play in person I will do that. Also for me playing computers doesn't affect me the same way as another person online. So I use a go AI to play games when I feel like it.

This may not solve the problem at hand but it allows me to get better at go and not be stressed out.

Hope this helps.

Most people already have too many things in life which produces stress. Game is supposed to be a game. Just relax and enjoy it. If you make a fool of yourself, so what? Chances are that you are never going to meet your opponent in real life.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

wise words

Protecting that rank graph is the thing that produces the most stress for me, never been too bothered about the misclick thing, doesn't happen too often and I don't think I've ever had anyone so no to the undo request when it was come up.

PeterN

You may have accidentally hit the nail on the head here. This seems like one of the major issues I've got. I'm always watching the clock, not because I'm worried about running out of time but because I'm worried that I'm irritating the other player. Not being able to see my opponent takes away a meter of sorts: the player's response.

I enjoy the empathy when they make a bad play and the excitement when they do something that challenges me. I find that without those, it's almost like losing one of my senses and the game becomes increasingly more difficult.

If there was more comments during the game or if I just assumed that everyone I played was a bot, I might get along a little better.

Rank graphs are only approximations of relative strengths. They are not absolute. If everyone else is improving around you then your graph can go down, even if you are improving. If it bothers you so much then don't look at it. Or turn the screen upside down before you do.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

He is probably looking at another screen in between moves.

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

Well, you’re right, but the actual problem is probably that WE are judging ourselves … All. The. Time.

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

You can't go being rational now, not in a thread about anxiety

Regardless of their limitations, I don't think I'm alone in not liking to see that graph go down.

PeterN

How about this then? How would you react to it? I am not at all bothered as I play purely for fun.

http://www.dragongoserver.net/ratinggraph.php?uid=42143

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Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

That rank graph would make me sad, wouldn't bother me that much though.

PeterN

If it's okay to drop in, when the purpose of playing changed from winning to experimenting, anxiety fell significantly for me. In other words, for example, if you count the game and find yourself winning by a safe margin, going for the interesting/challenging line of play changes the purpose from seeking victory in points to seeking victory in learning. When you play in other games you don't worry about rank as much .

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On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.

I‘d like to suggest something I’ve thought of for a long time: an OGA league, or a playing group “OGA Anonymous” or something

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?