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Author Message
Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #21 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 11:48 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure, if I should really contact a weak stone, but this move fixes the cut (the cut does not work now, but might work later) and gives me good shape! I considered a pincer, but didn't want to be pushed into his corner! Let's see how he answers! I expect Q7!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:01 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm staying light here.
Possible follow ups:

Bad: Crawling on the second line.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm fine with this, It makes the right big for me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



This also makes the right big for me, and I'm not worried about the cut.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:19 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Pushing out in sente! I don't want to get surrounded!
If he ignores this move I have this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . 2 X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . 1 X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 6 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:31 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . 1 X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Only move here.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #25 Posted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:03 pm 
Lives with ko
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Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Biggest point as far as I can see! I'm worried about the right though! It grows too big, I might have to invade soon!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #26 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:07 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm fine with this result. The left side was uninteresting to me, given that my upper left doesn't have good development potential. Also, he chose a joseki in the bottom right that emphasizes the right side, but then did not follow up there. Now I get to threaten this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 3 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #27 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 6:12 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1596
Liked others: 891
Was liked: 533
Rank: AGA 2k Fox 3d
GD Posts: 61
KGS: dfan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Can someone stronger than me evaluate the marked exchange? It feels to me like Black has helped White protect the cut for free. On the other hand it might be worth something territorially.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #28 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:21 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I feel that I'm falling behind in points! I need to reduce his right side!
Moves I thought about (in no particular order):
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . b . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . a . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X g . |
$$ | . . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . h d . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X c . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . f . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a: I think both this and the follow-up are sente and it gives me influence to negate his moyo!
b: The invasion destroys more of his territory, but if he jumps out a fight will develop which favors him due to the big right side!
c: This is sente and reduces a bit! I also want to avoid him playing there, so that's probably my next move!
d: I thought about this earlier and if his last move wasn't there, I think this would have worked well to live on the right!
e: Threatens to enclose his corner and grows the left, but he can invade easily and the move is not sente!
f: Too small to play it yet, but will be big later
g: I could try this move and make sabaki, but I think it's too early
h: This peep might work as a reduction! After peeping I would jump out with the keima!
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #29 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:33 am 
Lives in sente
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , 3 W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He rightly reduces here, but I feel like 30 is an overplay. I'm going to start a fight here if he hanes. Otherwise, I can separate his reduction.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X 1 . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , 3 W 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 4 5 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #30 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:40 am 
Gosei
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OGS: daniel_the_smith
Wow, I would really hate to play m16 as white... it fixes all kinds of problems for black.

_________________
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #31 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:44 am 
Tengen
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dfan wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Can someone stronger than me evaluate the marked exchange? It feels to me like Black has helped White protect the cut for free. On the other hand it might be worth something territorially.

white didnt have much choice but protect but black jumping is wrong. plain Q7 is better move than the jump.

_________________
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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #32 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:45 am 
Lives with ko
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Yay, observer comments! I'm so curious! I bet I'm getting criticised :D

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 1 . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Only move, really! If he tries to cut me off, I think I can catch his marked stones, since his peep made my "wall" so strong:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . B B 2 . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O 6 B O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 3 W 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #33 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:08 am 
Lives in sente
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Posts: 924
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Tygem: redundant
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DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Disregard my prior statements. The cut is retarded here. This secures territory on the top, and this sequence will end in sente for me, as he needs to protect the cut. I'm looking at E5 to reduce his bottom left.
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #34 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:41 am 
Lives in gote
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Zwergesel wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]I feel that I'm falling behind in points! I need to reduce his right side!


Not for players
With my rudimentary understanding of sector lines, I don't think this is a reduction. I think it's an invasion (with all the baggage that comes with that). White's move is (barely) inside black's smaller sector line, and definitely inside black's larger sector line (though that line is a bit longer than 10 units, so it doesn't count for much I don't think).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ {AR L17 Q11}
$$ {AR L17 P7}
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , . 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


For instance, if black and white play like this, white's "reduction" is suddenly looking a bit like an invasion (white could try to hane earlier, but then I think he'd need to treat the original move as a sacrifice when black cuts. (Well, it starts to involve lots of tactical reading to see if black's group sandwiched between white can be captured)).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , 2 1 . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . 4 3 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I won't try to comment on whether it's a good move or not, but I think white's reasoning is off if he thinks this is a reduction.

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #35 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:02 pm 
Lives with ko
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I just feel that this move is important! If black hanes there, I wouldn't want to ignore it, because a second move makes my corner really small and potentially even kills it in which case I'd have to run into the center! On the other hand if I play it now, it is pretty much sente, or I destroy the precious territory that took him so many moves to secure!

Some sequences I see:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , 6 b . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X a X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He can't really do this, so he probably needs to extend once more! However, the second push might not be big enough for him to treat it as sente at all!

If I get to play the marked stone, I have this sequence:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 7 5 2 3 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O 9 X X 1 X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

or this, which looks good, but I haven't read it all the way to the end:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 3 . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X 1 X 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O 6 7 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . 8 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline hoohoo
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #36 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:11 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 31
Liked others: 0
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Numsgil;

Sector lines schmector lines
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #37 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:12 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think my two stones there are pretty light. I'm also not going to follow him across the board. He left this cut, so I'll take it. He now has a heavy group.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #38 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:35 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Interesting! I did not expect him to ignore my move! I guess I can't tenuki to take 'a', but this still feels fine for me! I can give up the marked stones and take territory on the left with 'b' or save them with 'c'! If he plays 'c' next, I will play 'b' and then 'a' or 'd' depending on where he defends!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X W W . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . 1 . c . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Redundant
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #39 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:52 pm 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 924
Location: Pittsburgh
Liked others: 45
Was liked: 103
Rank: lazy
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . 3 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is better than
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


is better than

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 1 3 5 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 6 7 9 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 61. Redundant (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #40 Posted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:38 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . O . X X . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . X O , X O O . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . O . O X . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . X X O , O . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . X . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


See above, :b37: is almost the same as 'c'
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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