26. Redundant (4k) vs. Lute (4k)

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:07 pm

Trigger for move #13

And another(move #15):

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:27 pm

I choose to accept both triggers.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Moves 13 through 17 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The two triggers, plus my move, take us to the end of the joseki. Now it gets interesting.

I feel like a large amount of my play so far has been just following joseki. I'm doing this, as I feel that the game is too early for the outside circumstances to make the joseki a non-even result. That is, locally even results should be even for the whole board.

I feel now that, if white plays locally white might go for this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But it doesn't seem to be vital for the white group. White is out, and can find at least one eye in the corner if need be. So white should tenuki here, especially as this sequence is gote.

Looking at the board now I see these regions as big.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . d . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . b . . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a seems biggest to me. It secures the corner, and makes the top huge. I'd then respond around d.

b secures the corner, and takes away a good approach from my bottom position. It then makes c bigger. I would respond with an approach on the top left.

c makes something that looks a bit like the chinese fuseki. It creates a prepincer for the top left. However, this feels a little awkward given the position in the bottom left. I would probably respond by approaching the bottom left. Although, now I realize that I might want to play d, to prevent white from getting a large scale framework. But then b becomes pretty big. I'll cross that bridge if and when I come to it. I wonder if any observers could comment on whether c is any good? It seems awkward, but as I analyzed it, it seemed to become a good move.

If white plays d, I'd approach the top left. I'd need to think carefully about which approach to choose, as d does influence choice of approach and choice of joseki.

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:49 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both triggers are joseki points and something I'm perfectly happy to roll with. It leaves me with some local follow ups at :ec:

. I feel this is a waste. I do not want to strengthen something that I can potentially leverage later. So I will tenuki now and by direction of play, I see only one urgent move.... It's hard to imagine playing elsewhere but I must try. Nope. I'm drawing a blank. It's big to play at one of two unfinished corners and this is the obvious one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . d . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . e , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O C . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . a b . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I do not like C because it is an extension facing my opponents shimari, it does make miai of around d and e but I'm not accepting this as black now has sente to approach C4. Much better to enclose the bottom left and then I expect Black to approach top left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . b a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . W . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have rough ideas of what I want to do if a. I mean, I think I'll just take some points and not pincer at least. If b, I think it would be too tempting to pass up with a pincer. I will happily play high and immediately be thinking about if I can push Black down on the bottom and make an interesting moyo. I doubt he will play the kobayashi-like c but I do know the joseki following that well and I will be pincering it. Unfortunately this will give up some more territory to Black but at the aim of building something huge for White.

I have options, Black has options but here at least I'm certain that I can predict this move perfectly!

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:04 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 19 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is pretty much what I expected, although the large knights move enclosure is a lot less firm on taking corner territory. I now follow my plan to approach the top left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . b a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . d c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These are the possible approaches. I chose a, as I am pretty low across the board. I need some stones on the fourth line ...

I also could have played b, but then I would be pretty low.

The distant approaches aren't something I usually play. I don't really feel comfortable with the variations.

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:23 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . W . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here is what I'm considering:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . W . b . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . a . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But... this might not actually give me sente as Black could tenuki instead of protecting that invasion. The reason why I don't choose 'a' is I really don't want black to play at 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 2 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Similar idea, though here I feel it's more important to defend. The downside is that it puts black in the same situation I was in earlier and I fear the avalanche with this move.

I must decide which is more reasonable and harder for Black to tenuki from but I think they are equally important. I will choose one to simplify the situation.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:32 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I did not see this move coming. I feel like a pincer would have been better. The left is big for white because of the shimari. This is a likely result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 4 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This gives me a stable group on the left, which would have been big for white. I'm wondering if white might play 4 as a pincer on my group. If he does, then I'll need to consider how I can attack the group on top. Kogo's has no variations where white 4 attacks my group. I'm going to assume that the reason for this is that I have a severe attack on the top, or that I have an easy way to live and then attack the pincering stone. I'll consider that after I see white's response.

Whole board wise, I need to find a way to get sente and play something on the right to prevent myself from being kept low.

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:36 pm

Keeping it rolling. I stayed in tonight so we may get far and (potentially) get exciting and attract an audience.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trigger:

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:44 pm

I accept the trigger. Also, I found out how to title the diagrams. Check out the diagram code.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Moves 23 through 25 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is the sequence I wanted. We'll now see what white wants to play.

I feel like white might play this. I have to respond to protect my extension. Then white could try to build something off of his shimari. I feel like 3 here is forced. If not, I'll probably shoulder hit his stone to keep him low. After 3, I'll probably play on the right to make a framework and keep myself from being kept low. I'll need to find a good spot to play there, though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:56 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 26 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I figure I'm not giving enough detail on my original plan or this one for that matter, so I will try again.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 26 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , 2 . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was it, but giving Black too many forcing moves on the left - it's really really bad.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 26 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 4 1 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Maybe? I think there's a lot of options. A lot of moves that I'm eying.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:17 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 27 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hello, and welcome to the middlegame. This move acts to prevent me from getting the framework I've wanted on the right. However, I feel like it's a little too deep. I would have played this in order to keep black low on the right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Variation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now I chose my move as it definitely feels sente to me. If white tenukis, I can play this hane, which results in my group getting out and getting influence. Now white has to live on the side, or run somewhere.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Varation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Thus, white won't tenuki my move. If white hanes, I will counter-hane. He cannot then cut, as this variation gives a very nice wall after I sacrifice my stones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Variation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 3 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white hanes and then extends, I will do this, and get thickness facing his lone stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Variation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 5 3 , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 1 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white extends initially, I see this happening. I dare white to try to cut the knights move. And now his lone stone is under attack.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Variation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 3 . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Lute · Post by **Lute** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:54 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 28 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Well, I simply need to get on top of things because I do not like this at all. I expect Black to push up and make me vvvery unhappy for playing Q12.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 27 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 3 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 W O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

And here, I will have to contemplate as I feel that continuing along this path will surely be painful. I've given my opponent something to attack so now what? Live, sacrifice, or run? I'm out of my comfort zone with a group this deep in his framework... it's too good for black to have this target to attack. We'll see if he plays this way then decide.

Redundant · Post by **Redundant** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 29 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . B . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Loons · Post by **Loons** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:37 pm

Warning: Loons is not good at go

But if I get myself into this situation I will try and live with the lonely stone. I'm not that worried about bottom right's L&D... I think he can live small in the corner at least.

I am going to make a really bizarre and ambiguous diagram

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 29 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . 1 . 1 X 1 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X 1 , . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O 1 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I will peep/probe with this kind of stuff until I can live.

O16 here might actually even be an ok move

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:12 am

Redundant wrote:
This is the sequence I wanted. We'll now see what white wants to play.

I feel like white might play this. I have to respond to protect my extension. Then white could try to build something off of his shimari. I feel like 3 here is forced. If not, I'll probably shoulder hit his stone to keep him low. After 3, I'll probably play on the right to make a framework and keep myself from being kept low. I'll need to find a good spot to play there, though.

$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . X . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Not for players:

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:09 am

To Schultz

Life In 19x19

26. Redundant (4k) vs. Lute (4k)

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Move 19

Move #20

Move 21

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute

Re: Malkovich #26 Redundant vs Lute