Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 am

My second Batoo(-kovich) game. My opponent will this time be Zwergesel.
lets hope I learned from my earlier mistakes.

Quick rule overview:
1 hidden move
1 open scan costing 2 pt
3 base stones each worth 5pt (will lose 5pt when one gets captures)
plus zones are 5pt when played ( bonus will not be lost when stone gets captures. points are only awarded once for each zone)
minus zones are -5 points (points only deducted once)
each stone on the board is 1 pt (will lose the point when it gets captured)
when we have put a base stone on the same coordinate it gets removed and it turns into a minus zone.
after we each posted our hidden base they are revealed and we make a komi bet.
the rest is like normal go with area scoring.

let me know if i missed anything, or if something is not correct.

I will post my base later today.

Onegaishimasu

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Harleqin · Post by **Harleqin** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:54 am

freegame wrote:The rest is like normal go with area scoring.

Just to clarify: I thought that in effect, it is area scoring, but that the stones on the board are counted during play, while the territory is counted afterwards.

gaius · Post by **gaius** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 am

During the game, you get 1 point for every move played. After the game, only territory is counted. If you add those up, you will find that effectively, you're using area scoring.

By the way, if you don't want to keep track of the score at every move (tedious), it works just as well if you just don't do it

. All you need to do is add 1 point for every capture, and award 1 point extra if the player that moved first also plays the last move of the game. Saves a lot of hassle...

I'm looking forward to observing this game a lot (especially to seeing how and if freegame adjusts his Batoo style). Good luck to both!

Zwergesel · Post by **Zwergesel** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 6:07 am

My base:

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:15 am

my base

my thoughts

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:21 am

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:22 am

We have the same base...

This means we should start with an empty board and a lot of minus zones.
Do you want to continue like below, or should we give it another try before starting :?:

I do not really mind much either way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:0, W:0 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . m . . . m . . | $$ | . . . m . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

provided we continue this is my komi bid:

my thoughts

Zwergesel · Post by **Zwergesel** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:07 pm

This is awesome!

My komi bid without much thought is 8 points!

Looks like I'll go first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:1, W:8 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . m . . . m . . | $$ | . . . m . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Thoughts:

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:33 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:1, W:9 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . m . . . m . . | $$ | . . . m . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . W . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

my thoughts

Zwergesel · Post by **Zwergesel** » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:01 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:9 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m . m . . . m . . | $$ | . . . m . . . . B . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

No thoughts!

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Sat Jul 03, 2010 5:53 am

Zwergesel wrote:No thoughts!

you played a random move *closing eye's, throwing stone at board, opening eye's

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m W m . . . m . . | $$ | . . . m . . . . B . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

My thoughts (I have quite a few for this move

)

I can not put all my thoughts in here or this post will get too long (I already removed some diagrams)

first I looked at approaching the top right stone.
but now the 4-4 in the bottom right is in a nice spot for black.
and the top left and a move at a are miai now.
So i'm not going to play like this.

Second, I took a closer look at the top left corner.
Black can play several approaches to that corner, and I have to make sure I do not end up playing a lot of minus points.
Below are some variations I thought about. each of them seem oke for me, so I'm going to it.

trying to force black to play some minus zones seems like a good strategy because I already have a lot of komi.
him playing a minus zone will put me far ahead on points.

this looks fine for me, the black stones are weakish and not supporting the top right

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m W m . . . m . . | $$ | . . 2 m . . . . B . . | $$ | . . m 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | p . 3 . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

now the black stones are working nicely together (not what I want.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m 2 m 3 . . m . . | $$ | . . W m 1 . . . B . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

so, after this I can not play at a or I will get the result I did not like in the previous diagrams.
I think I will play :w2:

. black

has no good follow-up with all those minus points.
I also get a lot of hidden move aji with this move.

I can also play b, but I will look at b and :w2:

in more detail when we get to that.
at least I'm sure I will have good options to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m W m . . 2 m . . | $$ | . . a m 1 . . . B . . | $$ | . . m b . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

side node: I think hiding the diagrams for each comment like this makes the post easier to read. let me know if you prefere this, or having all diagrams shown directly without the additional "show" button

Zwergesel · Post by **Zwergesel** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:58 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m . . . m . . | $$ | . . B m . . . . X . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:00 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:3, W:11 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m . . . m . . | $$ | . . X m W . . . X . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

my thoughts

There were two moves I considered.
a (which I played), and b

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +----------- $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . m O m $$ | . . X m a $$ | . . m . . $$ | p . b . .[/go]

b can get quite complex.
after :w1:

black forces me to defend on the top. after 3 I have weakness all over the place and black can use his hidden move to destroy me. :w3:

@ c would give black the opportunity to play the attaching move at :w3:

this is a disaster for me.
b instead of :b2:

has a lot of nasty things in it with the minus points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m . c 3 m . . | $$ | . . X m b . . . X . . | $$ | . . m 2 . . . . . . . | $$ | p . 1 . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

a reinforces my weakest stone on the board.
because I want to play solid I selected a
black now has to do something with his move in the top left or I will get a really severe attack.
something like 2 seems the best option. Next there is a (which is now a lot better) or b for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:2, W:10 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m . . a m . . | $$ | . . X m W . . . X . . | $$ | . . m 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | p . b . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

Zwergesel · Post by **Zwergesel** » Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:24 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:11 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m B . . m . . | $$ | . . X m O . . . X . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . . . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

freegame · Post by **freegame** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:11 am

wow, I had a couple of response ready to moves I expected. But this is not one of them.

my thoughts about the position (strategy)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:12 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m B . . m . . | $$ | . . X m O . . . X . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . . . . | $$ | p . . W . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

my thoughts for this move.

there are three responses that I want to take a closer look at (a,b and c).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Score - B:4, W:11 $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . m O m B . . m . . | $$ | . . X m O . . . X . . | $$ | . . m b . . . . . . . | $$ | p . a c . , . . . . p | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . X . . . | $$ | . . m . . . . . m . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . p . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

a played out:
nothing good can come from this. looks like a similar mistake like black just made (wrong direction)

b played out
looks nice for white, but again quite a bit of aji left. with the hidden move still available to my opponent I don't want this either. (I would probably play this way if it was a normal Go game)

c played out
better then a, and b, but this can get more complex.

If he uses a hidden move during the fight I can scan one option and play another. So I have to keep the number of aji points below two during the fight. I think that c has the best result keeping this in mind as well as the plus point and the general board position.

edit

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Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

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Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame

Re: Batoo(-kovich) #3: Zwergesel vs. freegame