Hi all,
I'm new to the game. I've started playing on tygemgo and took some time to figure out how to convert the file as sgf...
I'd appreciate if some kind soul can review it and tell me broadly what were my major faults in my game and I'll focus on those for the next 10 games.
edit: I can't get the uploaded file to appear in an sgf board... can I get help?
Regards,
Cartier
New Player's Learning Journey
New Player's Learning Journey
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Jhyn
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Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Not sure about the technical details, but I copied the url directly and it worked. It seems your url contains an additional "mode=view&" that breaks the reader.
To be clear, the url I put between sgf-full tags is "http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6617"
Some superficial comments:
White
: Did you read the reply Black R13?
White
: your group is strong - it is connected on the right side. It's not clear what this move is doing (maybe you can tell me your idea). I'd play elsewhere: defend at r10, or play f3.
White 140 to 144: you play 3 moves to capture one stone, a grand total of 2 points. There are moves on the board such as B9 or F9 worth four of five times that.
From the beginning (140) you attack a stone with no value. If you're afraid to be cut on the right play m9 or n9. Or play elsewhere.
After 172: what happens if Black plays J3, then K2, then connects at J2? Can you read it?
176: you play a lot of moves in the center (also before, but it becomes even more obvious). Moves such as F19 or D1 are much, much bigger. To give you a feeling of this, F19 is bigger than capturing four stones.
To be clear, the url I put between sgf-full tags is "http://lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=6617"
Some superficial comments:
White
: Did you read the reply Black R13? White
: your group is strong - it is connected on the right side. It's not clear what this move is doing (maybe you can tell me your idea). I'd play elsewhere: defend at r10, or play f3.White 140 to 144: you play 3 moves to capture one stone, a grand total of 2 points. There are moves on the board such as B9 or F9 worth four of five times that.
From the beginning (140) you attack a stone with no value. If you're afraid to be cut on the right play m9 or n9. Or play elsewhere.
After 172: what happens if Black plays J3, then K2, then connects at J2? Can you read it?
176: you play a lot of moves in the center (also before, but it becomes even more obvious). Moves such as F19 or D1 are much, much bigger. To give you a feeling of this, F19 is bigger than capturing four stones.
La victoire est un hasard, la défaite une nécessité.
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
yes I noticed I've been playing in the centre. For move 46 my idea was to take more territory on the left side...
move 176 I did see the squeeze and then robbing all the eye space...
On the whole, i'm still pretty bad at identifying big moves across the board...
move 176 I did see the squeeze and then robbing all the eye space...
On the whole, i'm still pretty bad at identifying big moves across the board...
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
I've just played another game, lost territory gradually before blundering one big group away after getting it cut off with move L4...
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EdLee
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Hi Cartier,
Welcome to Go.
Did you also consider C11.
This seems a strange feeling -- the 
stone jumped into your sphere, and now suddenly it seems Black is pushing you around.
- 
Seems you had no plan here; just peeping and pushing for no reason other than to reduce your own liberties.
Instead of at C11, study what happens if you first peep at D12, then attach at B11.
What's the meaning of this cross cut ? What's your plan here ?
This local result is a disaster for you: classic toothpaste.
Your problem here started with the attach
-- again, not having a plan (just like - ).
Take a moment and notice that Black's E13 group is not settled (thus weak).
His
stone is floating by itself. A better plan would be to find a way to split them and attack both at the same time.
The 3rd line attach shows a lack of global perspective, lack of follow-up planning.
- 
exchange: again, no planning. If you just send him home like this, where's your gain ?
Looking back at these moves:
, , , , , 
, , 
, 
, 
, 
--
Welcome to Go.
Did you also consider C11. This seems a strange feeling -- the stone jumped into your sphere, and now suddenly it seems Black is pushing you around. - Seems you had no plan here; just peeping and pushing for no reason other than to reduce your own liberties.Instead of
at C11, study what happens if you first peep at D12, then attach at B11. What's the meaning of this cross cut ? What's your plan here ? This local result is a disaster for you: classic toothpaste.Your problem here started with the attach
-- again, not having a plan (just like - ).Take a moment and notice that Black's E13 group is not settled (thus weak).
His
stone is floating by itself. A better plan would be to find a way to split them and attack both at the same time.The 3rd line attach
shows a lack of global perspective, lack of follow-up planning. - exchange: again, no planning. If you just send him home like this, where's your gain ?Looking back at these moves:
, , , , , , , , , , --- What's your primary reason for each move above ?
- Was it to "keep your territory" ?
- Did you have a secondary (or third) reason for each move ?
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Indeed plan-less play is a major problem - most of the time I have no idea how to react.
For 14-16, my idea was really to cut the invading black stone off. Your method was vastly superior, to peep first then attach at the black 9.
Move 31 black: I didn't know what to do when black invaded me there... Perhaps G15 would have been better, as you said, to split and fight both groups.
62-63 exchange in retrospect, was bad. Might have been better to cap with O13.
How do I improve the aspect of my "plan-less play"?
For 14-16, my idea was really to cut the invading black stone off. Your method was vastly superior, to peep first then attach at the black 9.
Move 31 black: I didn't know what to do when black invaded me there... Perhaps G15 would have been better, as you said, to split and fight both groups.
62-63 exchange in retrospect, was bad. Might have been better to cap with O13.
How do I improve the aspect of my "plan-less play"?
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EdLee
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Good question. Work on and improve all the fundamentals: basic shapes, basic tesujis, basic life-and-death, basic tactics, basic contact fights, fighting skills... everything.Cartier wrote:How do I improve the aspect of my "plan-less play"?
Example: why
ends with a very bad local result for you: classic toothpaste.If
117 at H5, you get a similar local shape: toothpaste.The exchange of
130, 131 -- again, toothpaste.-
Bill Spight
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Re: New Player's Learning Journey
I know how you feel. To make a plan, you need to have or find a goal, a good position to aim at. But how do you know what a good position is?Cartier wrote:Indeed plan-less play is a major problem - most of the time I have no idea how to react.
Cartier wrote:On the whole, i'm still pretty bad at identifying big moves across the board...
Well, there are books that you can read. But you still need to develop a feel for good development.How do I improve the aspect of my "plan-less play"?
One thing you can do is to pretend that you can make two or more moves on your next turn. What would they be? Obviously, the result will be good for you.
Next, think about how your opponent might play to keep you from getting to something like that position. Not too hard to do, OC. Often your best play will be one of those plays to reach that position or one of the plays that your opponent might make to prevent that.One way to develop a feel for good development is to use my heuristic to compare two plays. (It works better for strategy than tactics, for gote rather than sente.
) Assume that you make one of the plays and that your opponent makes the other. And vice versa. Compare the two resulting positions.Let's apply that idea toCartier wrote:For move 46 my idea was to take more territory on the left side...
in the first game. The saying goes, "Corners, sides, center," and the corners are occupied, so the sides are possible continuations. Let's compare
with "a" and "b", and "a" and "b" with each other. Diagram 1 vs. Diagram 2. Which looks better for White, which feels better?
Diagram 3 vs. Diagram 4. Which looks better for White, which feels better?
Diagram 5 vs. Diagram 6. Which looks better for White, which feels better?
----
Note that these are not necessarily the plays that you would choose. For instance, if you decided that the bottom side was where you want to develop, then you might play here.
You could compare the approach with the extension to "b", as above.
Or if you decided to play on the left side, you might play low instead of high.
However, my heuristic does not work too well to compare
with "a" because the comparison becomes tactical rather than strategic. Good luck!
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
I've just played another game, main pointers I seek:
- how to attack weak groups properly
- how to use my walls, they don't produce any territory and appears very thin during the game
I was playing white on IGS as Annutara...
- how to attack weak groups properly
- how to use my walls, they don't produce any territory and appears very thin during the game
I was playing white on IGS as Annutara...
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Shenoute
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Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Hi Cartier,
A few thoughts about the game :
since the G3 stone is low, w does not have much potential on the bottom side. It seems bigger to play at the top.
maybe r8 instead? This would have put pressure on black's two stones and enabled w to settle easily on the right side.
doesn't feel like the right joseki to me. Black is strong everywhere and has stones at Q6 or E14 that limit the potential of the wall.
seems too early. If b had just connected his groups by playing F7, w would have ended with a weak group in a strong black area. Seems better for w to hane at F7, keep some pressure on the b group in the center and only then use the moves played in the center to invade the left side.
is connecting necessary? This might have been the time to get ahead of b in the center and push his group toward the wall.
108/110/112 only make your central group weaker by pushing a strong b group toward it. Playing P6 instead or 108 or P7 instead of 102 might have worked better to connect your groups.
142/144/146 are kind of the same, pushing b toward white's defects and/or into w's territory
I hope this helps a bit.
A few thoughts about the game :
since the G3 stone is low, w does not have much potential on the bottom side. It seems bigger to play at the top. maybe r8 instead? This would have put pressure on black's two stones and enabled w to settle easily on the right side. doesn't feel like the right joseki to me. Black is strong everywhere and has stones at Q6 or E14 that limit the potential of the wall. seems too early. If b had just connected his groups by playing F7, w would have ended with a weak group in a strong black area. Seems better for w to hane at F7, keep some pressure on the b group in the center and only then use the moves played in the center to invade the left side. is connecting necessary? This might have been the time to get ahead of b in the center and push his group toward the wall.108/110/112 only make your central group weaker by pushing a strong b group toward it. Playing P6 instead or 108 or P7 instead of 102 might have worked better to connect your groups.
142/144/146 are kind of the same, pushing b toward white's defects and/or into w's territory
I hope this helps a bit.
Last edited by Shenoute on Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Charles Matthews
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Re: New Player's Learning Journey
It does look as if the play atCartier wrote:I've just played another game, main pointers I seek:
- how to attack weak groups properly
- how to use my walls, they don't produce any territory and appears very thin during the game
I was playing white on IGS as Annutara...
turned the game around. Big problems occur from White 100 onwards. The way you choose to be "pro-active" in the centre doesn't work out at all. That is, Black's weakish group in the middle of the board is not burdensome. You seem to be a little behind anyway, indicating an opening strategy that didn't develop well enough. I dislike
.The play at
would usually be criticised. At , playing out at G7 makes a big change to the balance of power in the centre: what came after made Black thick on the left. Looks to me like the solid connection at wasn't strictly necessary (has been said above). So you lost fighting momentum there. As White I would omit P5 as erasing too much aji. I would play at M11, and see how Black runs out, first of all: e.g. Black at M9 or J12.
Conclusion:
is a good invasion. You have to think about the counter-invasion at R3 for 
. Your attacking options are not so great, and the G3 stone isn't well placed (can blame the choice of L4, but bear in mind that joseki is F3 or E4). If Black jumps out at J5, following with G5 is natural, though a thin shape. The P14-Q9 group is not so easy to use as a wall, since it is fundamentally a bit heavy. You are behind so confuse the game.
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Thanks Shenoute and Charles for the review. So main problems were playing wrong ideas selected in the wrong places in the game, leading to wrong joseki selection during the game 
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Shenoute
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Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Well, don't worry, this could be used to describe every game played by (almost all) amateursCartier wrote:Thanks Shenoute and Charles for the review. So main problems were playing wrong ideas selected in the wrong places in the game, leading to wrong joseki selection during the game
Re: New Player's Learning Journey
Another game for review.
I noticed I gradually lost the game (exclude the final blunder which I resigned), not sure where I was losing the rope in the game...
I noticed I gradually lost the game (exclude the final blunder which I resigned), not sure where I was losing the rope in the game...
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EdLee
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Hi Cartier,
You know the upper left joseki, yes?
B didn't finish the joseki ( @ J17 ); he tenuki'd.
Why didn't you do something about it ?
The local shared vital point is E16.
Hmmm... You missed the vital point E16.
Then, after your ( - ) exchange, you tenuki.
That exchange hurt .
Locally, this is correct. Globally, this is too slow.
The upper left fight is urgent.
C15.
Up to here, the game is already not good for W.
The result of the upper left fight was very good for B.
Pass. End of notes.
You know the upper left joseki, yes?B didn't finish the joseki (
@ J17 ); he tenuki'd.Why didn't you do something about it ?
The local shared vital point is E16. Hmmm... You missed the vital point E16.Then, after your (
- ) exchange, you tenuki.That exchange hurt
. Locally, this is correct. Globally, this is too slow.The upper left fight is urgent.
C15. Up to here, the game is already not good for W.The result of the upper left fight was very good for B.
Pass. End of notes.