256, MinjaeKim v Elom

MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It is a joseki locally, and it also reduces black's development potential.
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

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[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 17, C3 (san-san)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . c . . X . 6 . a b . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While seven is an expected move, there is no good continuation for black from the points a or b after 28 at c, neither does it seem that there is any real worth in panning out the small lower right (small because white can still invade as the corner is a 5-4;)
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
skydyr
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by skydyr »

Elom wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Because it's high, it appeared to work better when white moves along the lower area of the board.
It would be very interesting to see just what direction white would embark upon...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . a . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was uncomfortable about enclosing so impetuously: white can always disrupt the formation with something such as a, and black may just end up concentrated on the right even more so. (for example, a ladder emerges in the lower left; a ladder breaker on the right; etc...)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ A heightened invasion...
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . P . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cPrisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O 1 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the future, the area around c may become more important: what if having the opportunity to attack around b means black would have a good reason to get there first? Even if black chooses a, it keeps with the strategy of leaving the bottom side partially negotiable for white.


I feel that the joseki choice in the upper right works awkwardly with black's 5-4, as evidenced by the difficulty of this move. The entire bottom side has an unfinished feel to it, which means that black can't really expect too much there without adding moves. If black were to play j3, for instance, it makes disrupting the corner bigger for white, but it also gives white an obvious move to play, and black doesn't seem to be at an advantage afterwards.

Taking the corner enclosure directly invites white's pincer on the bottom after. Maybe something like L3 is playable, but it seems a bit odd.

In any case, the game move feels overconcentrated to me while still being thin, but it's hard to find something right here. Black's proposed white invasion, though, would be terrible for white right now. Why not just take the corner?
MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm11Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 0 . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . 8 X . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Anything else possible?
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O 1 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X 2 O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't think of anything better than :b21: and :b23:
I think :b21: is a good example of learning good technique from jonseak, ...

If black first moves at :b23:, I guess white could have just that bit of a safer shape than in the pattern by playing at :w21:.
:b21: basically gives white something to think about: white may choose to capture the stone in a ladder, however, would probably succumb to a ladder breaker in the future, needing to return and capture, albeit creating a strong shape and nice influence.
White may, sometimes, just choose to extend at F5-- usually played by single digit kyu's when G6 just won't work, and stronger players for special purposes, I'm hinted into believing.

I don't see how white could choose the ladder move, so I *expect* an extension...
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ladder doesn't work, so seems to be the only move.
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The game has come to this point, and I've often found positions in which I see no clear direction quite challenging.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Out Of The Question
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This doesn't seem to have any real strategy.
White's position in the lower left betrays the normal direction of such an enclosure, and if white plays on the bottomside next move, it almost rubs salt on the would of playing in this area of the board yet again.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . e . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . h . O . f . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . g k . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . c j . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d l . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . i . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . b . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As mentioned earlier, a seemed narrow-sighted. Playing around b seemed a better possibility, however, I wasn't sure that moving upon another point on the board wouldn't far outweigh the value of b. Actually, I'm starting to believe :b15: (atQ9) may have caused the position to sway in white's favour

So considering options c to l, I discarded i, believing I couldn't create a group strong enough to truly neutralise the lower left influence-- which could the make in into an object of attack. c didn't quite satisfy me because of a possible pincer at d, d didn't make sense because of k, despite seeming a more effective option for the lower left than i, e didn't appear to make the most directional sense, and after spending some time reading out the results of h and g,it just didn't seem possible to avoid the amount of influence white would get. Therefore, j seemed a good try, however it let white use both his upper right jonseok and influence on the left side of the board by pincer at l; I never thought of l as a move. f may have been better than j, but the m17 group also created a directional issue.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Pincer Possibility
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . 6 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black eventually has to go back to lower right to make his last move meningful, so why not just play thick and secure?
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 27, L-5, --Nikken tobi.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


30pts.

That's the territorial difference within blacks framework I calculated after white invades at a in response to :b27:, compared to if black defends around a, allowing white a cap at b in the diagram below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21fig1.017 黒: /白: Allowing Impressment
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . b . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was worried that it would transform L3 into a liability, tempting black to defend it once more (a waste of initiative?). White having a stone at b may have a negative effect on deciphering the intent of black's stones to the right, it seems that there is a major enough difference in potential for black in the center and a significant enough effect on the potential of white in the center left/left of the board to make moving around 27 a viable path. Is it worth over 30 points? If I could answer such questions, the opening would be less of a mental marathon workout.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21fig1.018 黒: /白: Peek First?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X 8 7 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some may feel the need to take advantage of forcing moves before a placement such as :b29:

However, as a rule of thumb, if ther is no good reason for a peek, it better be left unplayed, however it's hard to say if there really is no benefit to this.
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
Kirby
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Kirby »

FYI, you can put a space prior to "Prisoners" in your diagram code. The way it is currently, since there's no space, the code parsing tries to interpret "Prisoners" and lists it as text that's part of the image.

So use "$$cm21 Prisoners" instead of "$$cm21Prisoners".

It will look like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21 Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 27, L-5, --Nikken tobi.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


as opposed to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 27, L-5, --Nikken tobi.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Note that I'll be making some improvements to the diagram code shortly, but maybe it'll be released sometime after the new year. Work has been a little busy lately, since I'm "on call".

In the meantime, just use a space in your diagram code to avoid the weird text that's part of the image :-)
be immersed
skydyr
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by skydyr »

@observers only
Elom wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 27, L-5, --Nikken tobi.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

30pts.

That's the territorial difference within blacks framework I calculated after white invades at a in response to :b27:, compared to if black defends around a, allowing white a cap at b in the diagram below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21fig1.017 黒: /白: Allowing Impressment
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . b . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I was worried that it would transform L3 into a liability, tempting black to defend it once more (a waste of initiative?). White having a stone at b may have a negative effect on deciphering the intent of black's stones to the right, it seems that there is a major enough difference in potential for black in the center and a significant enough effect on the potential of white in the center left/left of the board to make moving around 27 a viable path. Is it worth over 30 points? If I could answer such questions, the opening would be less of a mental marathon workout.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21fig1.018 黒: /白: Peek First?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X 8 7 , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Some may feel the need to take advantage of forcing moves before a placement such as :b29:

However, as a rule of thumb, if ther is no good reason for a peek, it better be left unplayed, however it's hard to say if there really is no benefit to this.


This is certainly a strong invitation to invade the corner for white, probably at 3-3. If white can come out with sente, white is clearly ahead. I'm not certain that white can't build his own position and remain in the game, though, particularly if black has to go back and cover the corner at some point.


@Elom
Could you elaborate on your counting of 30 points?
MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Prisoners+6.5 黒: /白: Move 27, L-5, --Nikken tobi.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Here feels like the most interesting area left on the board. Now black has some choices: to invade the upper side, left side, or solidify his lower right corner.
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

Kirby wrote:FYI, you can put a space prior to "Prisoners" in your diagram code. The way it is currently, since there's no space, the code parsing tries to interpret "Prisoners" and lists it as text that's part of the image...



I came across this function by accident, and thought it may be interesting to put a little line there such as komi, but I'm not sure if anyone may find it slightly distracting :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Komi_W+6.5 Prisoners; 黒: /白: .
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Move 29: L-13

An extremely hard position for me to process; feel free to giggle :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21fig_1.019 黒: /白:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . e . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . a . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It would be satisfying to make white respond to another black move in the center, however, I'm not sure that's the way to go because it is difficult identifying a move which threatened to surround territory with one more move. a appeared to leave the weakness at d, of course would be far contrived, I considered the move b rather intensely, as it could prompt white to secure the lower left area; but could black induce any significant effects within that area after another white move, or would it be pushing too far? In actual terms, it was basically holding stones for an invasion until just the right moment.

If black came in at a point like e at this very moment, white could attack on f and start turning potential into territory.

:b29: stems from wanting to limit one of white's areas, preparing for an invasion, while being flexible on areas that are hard to secure (O-14 looks like an easy weakness), as black's moyou seems smaller than white's in any case.

"...Could you elaborate on your counting of 30 points?..."

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cfig_1.019 Prisoners; 黒: /白: Well over 30 points.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . 3 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X 2 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . 1 . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . Q . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The best variation I read for black, :b5: didn't seem to need to be a connection.
The bad count of thirty points didn't take into consideration the territory white will control, so now it looks seems a reduction of well over forty points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cfig_1.020 Prisoners; 黒: /白: Butting on the head. White can choose a or b.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . b Q a . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It appeared that if white were to move in the lower right corner, in response to :b1:, [i]a or b would allow white to creep into a very large amount of points. i]
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
MinjaeKim
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm21Komi_W+6.5 Prisoners; 黒: /白: .
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 0 . 9 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It feels like playing with a time bomb in games like this. Someone will have to invade and a huge fight will likely happen, but who and when and where.
Elom
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Re: 256, MinjaeKim v Elom

Post by Elom »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30Komi_W+6.5 Prisoners; 黒: /白: .
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 1 . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . O X O O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Move 31: D-11

These types of moyou games are among the most difficult for me to play, the time spent pondering this move and the one before are the longest of the game so far.

I'm unsure of whether I could afford such a move, but black should probably go for a stretch in order to have a fighting chance. Hoping to strengthen the area around k10 as well as O14: the sacrifice is that it may become just that one step harder to dissemble white's territory, and it's possible that this move just went for too much... A lot from here on depends upon how white responds, I guess.
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
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