#249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think i have others good point to reduce black territory.
I think 74 is sente and the sequence finish in sente for white
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . c . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X a . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . d . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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schawipp
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by schawipp »

@Chiodus
Besides being sente, do you see any further advantages / disadvantages of the :w74:, :w76: sequence? Did you just play them because they are a "reduction in sente" or are there any further plans involved?


@observers
For me it feels that :w74: and :w76: just solidified black's right side and made the white stones at Q13 etc. a bit weaker. Also, a push&cut possibility at O16,P15, which might become working and useful at some later stage, seems now fully eliminated. As w, I would have a suspicious feeling about the center stones. Even if w manages to live or escape with them, black has around 32 points at right side (now pretty solidified...), potentially about 35 points at lower center and >15 points at top side. Additionally there are a few more black points around G9, G11 etc. For w it seems difficult to see more than 65 points on the board.
Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

[quote="schawipp"]@Chiodus
Besides being sente, do you see any further advantages / disadvantages of the :w74:, :w76: sequence? Did you just play them because they are a "reduction in sente" or are there any further plans involved?


@schawipp
Actually i played the sequence because was a reduction in sente.
Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


To reinforce my weak group and to establish a weak connection with my corner group. Also defend against black J12

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . 0 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

According to my reading this should be sente, but we'll see...
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Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Chiodus
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by Chiodus »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 4 . O . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . . . . . . O . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X X X O . . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . O X O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . . . . X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X . . , . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O X X . . . . . X . O . O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
tj86430
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by tj86430 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 :b1: :w1:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . . X . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X 5 . . . . . X . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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emeraldemon
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Re: #249 Chiodus vs tj86430

Post by emeraldemon »

Seems like black will never try to kill those white stones :scratch:
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