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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #21 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:13 am 
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:b15: is really bad (touching a weak stone, asking to be sealed in, playing on the second line). Jumping looks much better. Passing might be better.


EDIT:
Tenuki might be even better.

Having looked at his analysis a little bit more: :o :o :o

Of all the moves he considered, Marcus picked the worst one by far...

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Last edited by daniel_the_smith on Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline unkx80
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #22 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:29 am 
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[go]$$Wcm14 Prisoners: W=0, B=
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . a , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . 1 . c . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . d . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I agree with daniel_the_smith. :w1: aims to seal in at a, but doesn't affect black's safety. Any of b, c, or tenuki is much better than d.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #23 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:46 am 
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Yeah, :b15: is the sort of move you can make when your group is about to get tortured to death with rusty knives.

Also Marcus said something about this not being a moyo game. I think it's way too early to make that call with the marked stones on the board. They're all potential moyo starting points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm14 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . W . . , . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . 2 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Of course, playing on the second line is a good way to ensure that *you* won't be playing a moyo game. :twisted:

Oh, and :w14: is not so hot either. Approach a strong group on a small side in gote? Seems almost any approach would be better.

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Offline unkx80
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #24 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:13 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm12 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . , . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . 1 . a , . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O b X . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X 2 . . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't really buy the argument that :w14: is not hot... I think it is as hot as any of the other extensions or corner approaches, but probably not hotter. The reason is because it aims at a. a need not be played immediately, but it is rather big and also quite annoying.

Anyway, what I think is that while :w12: is not a good move, :b13: is slack. :b13: should be played at b, making the two-stone chain rather tight in liberties and not easy to manoeuvre. With :b13: at b, white doesn't have a should white plays at :w14:, and it would be a bit of a stretch to call :wc: and :w12: a sector line.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #25 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 12:26 pm 
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Hm. I'm sure you're right. It's just the fact that black can tenuki that makes me think the corner approaches must be more important.

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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #26 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:56 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm16 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . . X 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's see if he follows my lead! ^^
Although as I know myself, I'm not taking enough advantage of his mistakes! (At least I think this is a mistake, but who knows :) )
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #27 Posted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:00 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm17 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . 1 X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As per previous analysis.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #28 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:44 am 
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[go]$$Wcm18 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . 1 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Instead of continuing with my previous plan, I'm going to secure the lower right corner first!
If he invades now, I get a wall facing the right and hopefully an extension (I'll have to make the invasion end in sente for me). If he approaches, I will defend and just take the territory!
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #29 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:16 am 
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[go]$$Bcm19 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He's left me some aji to exploit later. Nice! Peeping now would be premature, though. Need to approach his corner.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 12:02 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Clearly blocking the corner is big! I played this iron pillar, because I think kicking and pincering is not appropriate here, because I don't have O4 to prevent 'a' and it also doesn't prevent the 3-3 invasion at 'b' properly!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . a O . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


With the iron pillar though, my corner should be safe and there are very little weaknesses for a nice, large corner!
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:02 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Seems like I get to make a base on the right. Now, I finally expect an approach up top. Given the board, I think White would get the most out of approaching the top left now. I'm betting C14 is White's next move.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #32 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:26 pm 
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[go]$$Wcm22 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The rule says: Approach from the wider side, right? There is space for an extension on the right, but I don't think it is better than just taking the top:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . 4 . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #33 Posted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:30 pm 
Gosei

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GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
I apologize for the delay. I played a number of games on KGS today and can't seem to think straight. I'll probably move tomorrow.

Hmmm ... this is an obvious move for White to make ... yet I did not consider it and am unprepared. That'll teach me. I've hit a bit of a roadblock in my go playing and am quickly losing focus in my real-time games. Hopefully I can relax and get my head back in the game.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #34 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:07 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Let's get this show going again:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm not sure why I hesitated so much to play this move. I guess my issue is I have no clue how to handle a counter attack from the opposite direction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . b . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I do have a couple options, but I'm not sure how good those options are. I'm leaning towards 'b'.

Come to think of it, :w24: here would be a really early invasion. I suppose as long as I keep an eye on that weakness, there shouldn't be a problem.

It's been one hell of a week, and I'm really lacking sleep. Maybe I'm seeing something that's not really there on the board. :)
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #35 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:03 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Trigger:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm24 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . O . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going to play this peaceful. He gets the right side. I get the top. But since he played a high extension he'll need another move or I can jump in between his groups on the right. This gives me sente to approach the remaining 4-4 and feels like a good enough result.
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #36 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:32 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
Trigger accepted.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 . . . 2 . . O . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm quite happy with this. White is going to have to jump in to my right side eventually. I'm strong enough there that I can severely attack whatever stones he throws that way.
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Offline Harleqin
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #37 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:00 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 921
Liked others: 401
Was liked: 164
Rank: German 2 dan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . @ . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:ws: is low, :wt: is high. The left side has an opening of 9 spaces, the upper side of 6.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #38 Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:50 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Sorry for the long delay! I didn't have time to play Go last week.
I'm still undecided between two possible moves. I'll probably make one later tonight.

Thoughts:
The two possible moves are:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 b . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure about the follow-up, but :b2: seems likely. The :w7: here intends to make me move out faster, but maybe it's better at 'b'. Note that the cut at 'a' doesn't work for black.
:w1: at 'a' might be good too.

The other possibility is just to approach the upper left. If he pincers me, I'll take the corner. Otherwise I'll get the left. This might be better than starting the fight on the right immediately.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 8 2 . . . X . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | 7 4 3 X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . 5 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Unfortunately this ends with :w10: in gote, which means he'll be able to fix the right side afterwards.

A third possibility that just crossed my mind is to take a point on the left side instead of approaching the corner and risking to be pincered. If he plays on the right, I get my approach as follow-up:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 4 X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Aaaah! Decisions! Why is there no clock that rushes me to make one here? :D
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Offline Zwergesel
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #39 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:51 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Sorry again for the long wait :oops:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm going with my instinct here, which is probably a bad thing...
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Offline Marcus
 Post subject: Re: 60. Marcus (4k) vs. Zwergesel (3k)
Post #40 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:44 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1387
Liked others: 139
Was liked: 111
GD Posts: 209
KGS: Marcus316
No worries on the delay ... I just have to figure out where I was going with this game now. LOL

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . O . . , . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O . X . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X X . X X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, seems like this is at least a reasonable response. I'll have to see if I can chase the White stone there for fun and profit. :D
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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