MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Area 'g' seems slow, but I guess it gives a bit of follow-up later in the middle:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O c . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X B X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If black plays there first, I guess I have "privilege" to cut later:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O c . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 3 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 C 1 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X X O 2 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Very vague, but I'm going to say about 5 points - difference of capturing two stones, got into the middle a little bit, but he also got a little bit more thickness.

Very hard to estimate, but this one doesn't seem that big.


Conclusion: So 'e' > 'd' > 'a' > 'b'/'f' (about the same) > 'c' > 'g'.
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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Finally, the last one. Sadly, I feel my desire to win this game is getting exhausted, the more I try to calculate these points.

I think my precision - not that I was precise before - is also going down.


Anyway, last one. If black plays first, I'm now thinking I like the marked move better, since it has better follow-up:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X g X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . B X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White won't answer, so I will get monkey jump:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | 4 8 . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 1 2 O O X g X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | 3 6 O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 7 5 O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | C X X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black has one more point in the marked area. Compared to if white goes first:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | C C . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C O O X g X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | C C O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | 3 1 O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | 4 2 X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White has 6 more points. So this is like 7 points or something.


Conclusion: This one is about 7 points. So something like 'e' > 'd' > 'a' > 'b'/'f' (about the same) > 'c'/'h' (have to calculate more clearly at that time) > 'g'.
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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I guess I'll play the highest ranking item from my convoluted math. What the hell?
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jeromie
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by jeromie »

That was an impressive amount of writing about your choice, Kirby!

Now seems like a good time to chime in and say that I really appreciate the effort you guys put into sharing your thoughts. These games are great fun to watch, and I feel I learn a lot about how to think about the game.
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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Thanks, jeromie. That's nice of you to say.

But don't try to learn too much from my thoughts. They are often somewhat muddled! :-)
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Bill Spight
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Bill Spight »

Kirby wrote:Thanks, jeromie. That's nice of you to say.

But don't try to learn too much from my thoughts. They are often somewhat muddled! :-)


Goethe said that if you can think something through, you are not really thinking. :D
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Bill Spight wrote:
Kirby wrote:Thanks, jeromie. That's nice of you to say.

But don't try to learn too much from my thoughts. They are often somewhat muddled! :-)


Goethe said that if you can think something through, you are not really thinking. :D


Goathe sounds pretty cool.
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MinjaeKim
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by MinjaeKim »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O W . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sorry for my extremely late response.
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Kirby
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Re: MinjaeKim 5.5d vs. Kirby 3d (Tygem ranks)

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . X B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The next biggest area according to my (flawed?) analysis was 14 points:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O B . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But then white's move here is kind of sente, if I am going to make my last move worthwhile:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . . X W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If that's sente, then it means white can have the monkey jump later:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O , O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . 1 X O . . 3 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 2 5 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That's a lot of points. At least this many compared to my play:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X X O . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O . X X . X X . O . . O O O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . O . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O O . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X X X X X X X X O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O O O O O . . . O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . X . . O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O O O X . X O . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O X X O W O X O X . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . O . X X O O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X . . . 1 X . . C C C . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . C C C C C C C . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Probably more with the potential for white to link up at the marked white stone area.

So more than 20 points.

Beats all other moves, IMO.
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