Sebastian Heuchler, a German Computer Science student, created an interesting page: https://kyudan.net

Screenshot:
From the “About” Page:

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

I suppose this is the end product of viewtopic.php?f=10&t=12675 ?

Ah, now I remember that thread … and yes, that seems to be it.

_________________
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

I tried a few games and underestimated every one of them.

_________________
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).

And after 2 games I'm #1 on the leaderboard! (4d 5d guessed as 4d 6d and 1d 3d guessed as 1d 2d (or vice versa)).
Edit: and then guessed 8d 8d as 5d 5d, oh dear!

How about this game DrStraw?

I don't like W30, I think the direction of that play isn't good. How about defending at D11 first?

I think I'd enjoy it more if it included kyu games and and had a range of choices such as 20-10k, 10-6k, 5-1k, 1-3d, 4-6d, 7-9d as opposed to trying to guess the exact rank of each player, which for me is pure guesswork.

_________________
Patience, grasshopper.

Uberdude: Yeah, that's what I had in mind.



I'll probably add kyu games when I find the time. I'm not sure how interesting it is though, I found judging dan games more fun personally, but maybe that's just me.

Regarding the ranges: I've considered that, but that would make a guess that's just slightly off look worse:
For instance, with your proposed ranges, let's say you guessed 3d instead of 4d. So you picked [1d-3d] instead of [4d-6d], which is a larger distance (as big as 1d instead of 6d!).

So the current systems allows you to be more precise. Of course getting it 100% accurate is impossible, but you'll be off by only a bit most of the time.

I've thought about assuming everything within 1 from the 'correct' solution to be a perfect hit, too, to mitigate the problem. So if you guess 5d but it's a 6d, you're still 'off by 0' instead of 'off by 1'. If you guys like that idea, I'll add it when I find the time.

Yes, but you're a dan player.

I watch dan players play, and I can't tell what they're doing differently from me -- or why their moves are better than mine.

Well, I think it's a very nicely done site, good job maf!
As I'm a mid-dan myself I'm probably in a good spot to judge moves better and worse than mine. As dan players are a minority adding kyu games will make it appeal to a much larger audience. I think keep the single dan options when the range is 1d - 9d, buckets are too coarse and introduce artefacts as you mention. If it were 20k - 9d maybe you do need them, but even then I think it's better not, perhaps a slider is appropriate UI? Then again some people are averse to choosing an option they see as overly precise (and receiving an average offset of say 5, but 1 if they are better at predicting) versus choosing buckets which means they get more "right" but will always have some larger offset, masking the better prediction ability of others. And call 1 off 1 off, not 0 off.

The board is too large to view at once on my iPad, so essentially unusable. Any chance that you can make it viewer sizable?

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

The games aren't presented in the same order to each viewer, are they?

_________________
Occupy Babel!

Fair enough! I'll add kyu games and think some more about how to still give vote detailed options. I feel sliders would be poorly usable on mobile devices (I know I have trouble with them all the time), so... not sure. Maybe a hierarchical two-click option (select range first, then select value in range)? The second step there could of course contain values slightly outside the initial range to make it less strict and more fuzzy. This might even help with the thought process ("Ok I know it's an SDK games -click- but which one exactly...? -stare at options-"). Going to research this.

Regarding the board size: I actually did some hallway usability tests which highlighted this as a problem, too, so definitely going to fix this asap. For now, I hope it's possible to scale the whole page down on your device as a workaround.

And Thank you for the feedback (and praise even)!

(Please be patient with me though, I'm continuously having final exams the next few months.)

The order is indeed random. Basically, the site first picks a random rank between 1d and 9d, then a random game for that rank (which has not previously been voted on by you, of course), so it should be completely different each time you reload the page.

On the iPad none of the browsers I tried (safari, chrome, and opera) allowed me to pinch the screen and keep it at a smaller size.

_________________
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21

I asked because I wanted to share my experience without giving away anything. The first two games, I thought "these moves look bad, they must be weak players" (silly, since I'm weaker than any of the players in this group). I guessed low dan, and found that they were all 5 or 6 dan players. The next game, I thought the moves looked reasonable, so I flipped my assessment and said "maybe they're weaker players who play the moves I'd want to play." Again wrong: they were mid-dan players.

Summary: I am terrible at this.

_________________
Occupy Babel!

I've added little text buttons below the kifu which allow you to resize the board to make it smaller. This hopefully helps, at least temporarily, until I fix it properly. The WGo.js player I'm using offers pretty nice layout options as far as I can tell, but I did not get around to really understand and apply them yet.

By the way, you can also use your keyboard's arrow keys (if present) to navigate.

Since you have an account (I think?), your game history is stored in the database, so I could (at least manually) retrieve the games. However, it is not currently possible to request a specific game from the server - intentionally, as this would allow easily skewing the vote results.

But I see your point. It should at least be possible to share specific games 'read-only', so others can view the kifu, too. Maybe it would suffice to offer a link to download the SGF file currently displayed? That should be very simple to implement and avoid all issues.

By the way, just in case you found it yet, the player has an integrated link to the current kifu, which does not work on kyudan.net due to the above mechanics .

I added a little download button below the board.

I wasn't asking you to do anything. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't spoiling the first three problems.

_________________
Occupy Babel!