#258, Skydyr vs Elom

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:28 pm

Sorry, I haven't had much time to think about this this week, and will be out for a couple weeks now. I'll try and play soon when I get back.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:10 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sat Apr 09, 2016 12:50 am

Sorry for the delay,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11fig_1.09 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . b . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . a . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At first, I had a problem with this position due to the isolation of the upper side stone. Playing on the upper side will make black stronger, negatively affecting white on the other parts of the board. The right side stone seemed more important; however I was a little unsure as to whether white should play a large knights move or some other move. A large knights move seemed to induce more opportunities for black to invade white's right side position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11fig_1.10 Black can manage the fight, possibly?. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 3 . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . 6 . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:37 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon May 16, 2016 7:59 am

Are we still playing?

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Tue May 31, 2016 2:57 pm

skydyr wrote:Are we still playing?

Hello! Yes, I'm very sorry about such a long time of delay, however I was still thinking about the next move the past month and a half, but I should have (but didn't) give notice as it was so difficult to decide upon a move I couldn't come to a decision within the time I had for one given day...

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Tue May 31, 2016 3:12 pm

Okay,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was a rather prolonged move due to the fact that it often took longer to make a decision I was happy with in the time I had for one sitting (busy times

)
However, I think many times of relooking at the position has helped in clarifying some elements of the position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21fig_1.11 Difficulty $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . Y . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . T . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

At first it appeared quite difficult to form any meaningful territory within white's area of central influence, for example, it seemed that white responds at G7 after a black peek at G8, making a moyou rather tricky to finish off. It seemed rather narrow in any case...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21fig_1.12 Options $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . C . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I couldn't think of any move on the right that would give a clear benifit superior to a central play, as white coold take advantage of any black play there. For example, white could attach at b in response to a. I also didn't want to mobilise the isolated upper side stone for reasons simliar to not wanting to make a knight's move enclosure; white is unsure of which direction white would want to go at the moment, as it would be preferable for it to be in accordance with the eventual centre position, making these plays appear too early.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.13 Black seems flexible? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . 3 . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.14 A plan of attack. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O 2 . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I am still a little unsure as to whether white should take an offensive or defensive approach towards the central area-- if black decides to peek at 1, should white concede a portion of the centre for solid territory? Black seems to gain a formidable amount of control which could affect the right side, so I guess it would have a large impact on white's play on the right side. White's stones seem either slightly wasted or concentrated on the left.

In the second diagram, it feels more natural to attack directly, but it must be impossible to cleanly capture the black stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.14 Special agent, G2. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . a b . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One option may be to "counter", at 2: black may try to prevent the connection to G2, but this gives white the opportunity to respond harshly with a move in the center, at "a", maybe (or "b", possibly?). However, black would most likely move directly into the center after 2, as it seems to be a good trade for black, completely.

Moyou games...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.15 A possible future play? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 3 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.16 Tit-for-Tat tactics $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If black approaches at 1, I would move to a. If black decides to simply move relatively gently into the white moyou, around the 7th line, I can't see white doing anything except passively defending-- This is another issue with the formation. If black goes in deeper than that, white probably has no choice except to attack, at least hoping to gain some profit if possible if black isn't killed.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1fig_1.15 Moving the O17 stone. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . 1 . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . c a X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As mentioned, I also considered mobilising the upper side stone, but it really does seem too early. After one, black Q17 seems to be able to threaten white into a position which is very small (Q18, P18?).
Maybe white should go for an a-b-c style sequence, however, this may have a negative effect on the center position for white, as black gains strong stones facing towards that direction. White probably wants to settle the central position first.
Attaching on top of M17 (black 23), and moves of the like, only seem to give a position white can accept if the area was already taken by black.

Overall, white can save the aji and play in this corner any time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1fig_1.16 There is an open door here, so white probably shouldn't pincer if black plays here. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Fri Jun 03, 2016 4:37 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . X X . . . . . 3 . O . . . . . | $$ | . . X , O . . . X , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 4 . 5 . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

#258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom

Re: #258, Skydyr vs Elom