Saint Ravitt vs Darev

rev · Post by **rev** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:45 pm

White 26:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Black to move. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O @ X . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

daal · Post by **daal** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:56 am

kex · Post by **kex** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:51 am

A question to Rev:

rev · Post by **rev** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:35 am

An answer:

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:51 am

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 10:54 am

rev wrote: Hane at the head of two.

In some cases, this proverb is not sufficient criteria to decide the best (local or global) plan.
Is this one of those cases ? A variation:

seems big:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:06 am

For

...

Top left: some variations:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . O . . . . . $$ | . . X , b . . . . , $$ | . . a . . . . . . . $$ | . . . O . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . . . . .|[/go]

Lower left, one variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:13 am

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:04 pm

Joelnelsonb · Post by **Joelnelsonb** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:17 pm

black 27:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c White to move. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X # . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Joelnelsonb · Post by **Joelnelsonb** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:19 pm

daal wrote:
Not one of the player's comments so far includes a diagram. My impression is that most stronger players use diagrams fairly often. My guess as to why is that these players are spending less thought about possible sequences in response to their moves than stronger players would.

It hadn't occurred to me to post diagrams during a game like this. The idea is to learn from one another's strategies, not to aid one another in reading. Just my thoughts.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:41 pm

For those unclear on the concept:

Hidden comments, such as daal's, posts 32 through 39, are NOT meant for the players, unless otherwise noted.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Jul 13, 2016 11:47 pm

daal · Post by **daal** » Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:52 am

Joelnelsonb wrote:
daal wrote:
Not one of the player's comments so far includes a diagram. My impression is that most stronger players use diagrams fairly often. My guess as to why is that these players are spending less thought about possible sequences in response to their moves than stronger players would.

It hadn't occurred to me to post diagrams during a game like this. The idea is to learn from one another's strategies, not to aid one another in reading. Just my thoughts.

As EdLee said, hidden comments are hidden from the players for a purpose, and that also goes for the hidden comments the players themselves make. The learning you speak of is designed to take place after the game is over, not during it, so hidden thoughts about moves should not serve to aid the opponent.

As to my hidden post, now that the is out of the bag, the point I was making was that in Malkovitch games, we often see the players show their thoughts in diagrams as well as words. This serves to show their specific thoughts as to what might take place. I guess my point might be moot if the reason you were not posting diagrams was that you didn't want to help your opponent, but my impression from the comments is that specific responses to your moves is not what either of you are focusing on. In contrast to Malkovitch games by some stronger players, both players here seem more interested in the general strategic flow than in specific sequences, and this difference might be an important one to note on our path to becoming stronger.

daal · Post by **daal** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:56 am

I hope I didn't derail this game ...

Life In 19x19

Saint Ravitt vs Darev

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Re: Saint Ravitt vs Darev