Question on Shusaku game

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globulon
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Question on Shusaku game

Post by globulon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm66 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O M O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O 3 X X 1 O X X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . O O . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 2 . . O O O O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X X . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X O X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The commentary explains that this sequence guarantees the white top group is connected to the upper left corner group. However, when I put 67 at the red x instead of where it's played I can't seem to see how white will connect. I've tried playing out a number of lines on a board but can't find one to work for white. The best I can do is in some lines a ko where white tries to connect under the red x and then black starts a ko to the right along the edge.

Anyways, any thoughts as to how white connects in that case would be appreciated.
DrStraw
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Re: Question on Shusaku game

Post by DrStraw »

Well, this is the simplest if white doesn't want to fight the ko.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm66 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 1 2 . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O X O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O O X X O O X X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X 3 . , . O O . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 5 . O O O O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X X . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X O X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Still officially AGA 5d but I play so irregularly these days that I am probably only 3d or 4d over the board (but hopefully still 5d in terms of knowledge, theory and the ability to contribute).
globulon
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Re: Question on Shusaku game

Post by globulon »

You have an extra stone in your diagram. You have 68 played as an unmarked and then another 68.

Sorry, the numbers in your diagram are confusing, not sure if you have the right stones on or not.
Uberdude
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Re: Question on Shusaku game

Post by Uberdude »

DrStraw, I think globulon is asking how white should play now:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm66 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . O 2 O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O . X X 1 O X X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X . . , . O O . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . b O O O O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a X O X X . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . X X O X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't have the answer yet, but it might be white doesn't connect but comes out around a/b as black has some weakness there and that is also a successful result. So I wouldn't approach this as "find white an unconditional connect", but "find white a satisfactory result if black insists on disconnecting".
globulon
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Re: Question on Shusaku game

Post by globulon »

Yes, thanks Uberdude.
Uberdude
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Re: Question on Shusaku game

Post by Uberdude »

Maybe like this? 72 for 73 exchange is sente (though the kind of inside for outside move you prefer not to make unless needed) and means black is short of libs to cut. Black gets some points on top side but gets thin outside and would need to defend with something like a afterwards.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm66 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . 0 3 . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . 4 O 2 O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O 5 X X 1 O X X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X 6 . , . O O . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 9 . O O O O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 X O X X . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 8 X X O X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm76 19x19 board
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 2 . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . X O X . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . O . . O O O X X O O X X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . X , O X X X . , . O O . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 O 1 O O O O . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O X O X X . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . a . X X X X O X . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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