Chess Prodigy

[Subotai]

Well thank you Joaz for being the first person not to attack me out right.

The idea of people being gifted in chess, mathematics, music, ect. while also dabbling in "madness" is far from original. The fact that you can google Carlsen autism and find that his father made a statement that he does not have autism means that there were many people with the same idea.

Having a psychological condition is not a bad or good thing, it is just an aspect of their character. Just as in go there are players who are territory oriented, influence oriented, aggressive or passive, is one better than the other?

We could also assume that Carlsen and Lee are just super humans who are better than us in every way but it is more plausible that they have their own strengths and weaknesses.

This is not my attempts to try to find an excuse for my own ineptitude at go but is in the spirit of trying to better understand the game and the people who play it.

[hyperpape]

Well thank you Joaz for being the first person not to attack me out right.

Oh, brother . I just asked if this was more than speculation. And since you took that back after finishing a youtube interview, it seems like I asked the right question. The fact that other people have speculated just like you doesn't seem to change anything.

I don't view Asperger's as something that a person has to be ashamed of, or necessarily something that a person suffers from. However, I do think it is more often right to not speculate about which conditions a public figure has. And it also seems bizarre to lump "being gifted in chess, mathematics, music, ect. while also dabbling in 'madness'" in with Aspergers.

I'm also less persuaded by the sort of anecdotal "so many people in this field have Aspergers" comments like what Joaz says. I've known many people who have wondered if they had Aspergers or had others speculate about them, but only known one person I know[0] was diagnosed (probably some others were, but didn't mention it). Perhaps all of those people just never met the right doctor, but otherwise, I think there's a tendency for self-diagnosis or speculation about other people that seems off the mark.

[0] Met in person. I've seen more people go by on various internet forums.

Edit: wonder => have wondered; added word "comments"

[sybob]

So it does not surprise me at all if a medical professional makes a quick judgement on limited information and is correct.

Everyone his own views, but I beg to differ.

I don't have a medical or psychological background, but in my profession (like most professions, I reckon), a professional learns to not express a view or opinion unless he/she has an adequate basis and adequate information to form and also to express any such views and opinions. Without it, you refrain from expressing them, most certainly so in the open/public.

Also, while I in no way compare myself to persons like Carlsen and Changho, as both an ordinary citizen and sometime patient, I do not appreciate any docter who forms his opinion - read diagnosis - without proper and adequate intake/investigation. With all due respect, but this is different to trading books. In the medical field, there are reasons why second opinions are requested, even if the first opinion is 'professional'. Also, I think there's no need to stereotype people, even if they are more or less a public figure. To elaborate some more: I play go sometimes with a person who was professionally diagnosed as, and claims himself to be, (mildly) autistic. And he is not of world championship level. What I am saying is, is that even though psychological aspects and conditions may indeed play some part in obtaining championship levels, the implicit/suggested (causal) relationship between a psychological condition and reaching certain levels is to be supported by evidence, not heresay or quick judgements.

[EdLee]

I really hope that igo will get the recognition it deserves in the West and maybe we will have similar interviews on 60 minutes.

It's a nice dream. Perhaps Demis Hassabis.

Charlie Rose with Sophia:

[Subotai]

There was not one instance where I said 100% Carlsen has autism. I used words like "seems" and "hunch" and specifically stated that it is far from a concrete diagnosis.

If I didn't make such a statement we couldn't have this conversation. I could have started a discussion with out the use of any names but it would be much more difficult for other people to comprehend.

Once again, many people have suspected Carlsen of having autism, this isn't just me spouting nonsense.

I remember reading that some players were frustrated with Lee saying that all he does is study go and does nothing else. I am interested in learning more about him he is one of my favorite players but there is only so much in English.

[daal]

I saw this interesting interview on Magnus Carlsen 2 years ago. It immediately made me think of Lee Changho who became world #1 at 16. I wonder if they are similar in personality and cognitive aptitude. Magnus seems to have a form of Asperger's and while I have heard stories of Lee's peculiarities I haven't watched any interviews with him on top of that I don't know Korean. Anyone have any input?

What is it exactly that you want to know? To me, and the reason for my "attack" is that your post sounds like this:

I saw this interview with so and so, which reminded me of so and so2. I wonder if they have any similarities. So and so seems to be gay, while I have heard stories of So and so2's peculiarities...

Later you point out that his father has denied that his son is autistic, and then use this as justification to add to the speculation. Then you go on to mention that having a psychological condition is not a good or a bad thing, just an aspect of their character. I find it interesting that a professional sees no stigma attached psychological conditions and in the next breath speaks of people "dabbling in madness." As with being gay, just because there is nothing wrong with it doesn't mean that it is appropriate to share your opinions about someone who has not come out and shared the fact themselves.

What you seem to be doing is just gossiping, and doing so about a subject that is sensitive enough that his father feels it necessary to take a stance on. I don't doubt your professional judgement as to whether someone might have a psychological condition, but I do doubt your judgement as to whether it is appropriate to share your conjectures. Note that in all of the examples that Joaz mentioned regarding the ability of a professional to make a quick assessment, that he or she did so with a good reason. If your reason is something other than what it sounds like, it is not readily apparent.

If I didn't make such a statement we couldn't have this conversation.

What conversation? The one about Lee Chang Ho's personality? About the personality of great thinkers? This conversation doesn't seem to be getting off the ground. Can't you think of a way to talk about it without first speculating about psychological conditions? If on the other hand the relationship between psychological conditions to great thinkers is in fact exactly what you want to talk about, why not share some of your professional evidence supporting the theory?

[Tumtumtum]

Lul Magnus is a celebrity. You can talk about them how ever much you want.

[EdLee]

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[topazg]

....What you seem to be doing is just gossiping, and doing so about a subject that is sensitive enough that his father feels it necessary to take a stance on. I don't doubt your professional judgement as to whether someone might have a psychological condition, but I do doubt your judgement as to whether it is appropriate to share your conjectures....

This sums up my feelings quite nicely to be honest.

Maybe Magnus Carlsen would be diagnosed somewhere on the autistic spectrum, maybe he wouldn't, it doesn't bother me either way particularly. I know being a celebrity invites people to make relatively baseless assessments and judgements and then publicly throw them around, and presenting pertinent actual diagnoses and facts can be interesting, but making speculative conjectures without evidence just feels tasteless somehow. It just feeds situations where "person X must be Y because someone said that someone said that someone said that ...."

[Anzu]

This image is used to break up Internet fights these days.