leela strength

[jorden]

I'm trying to find out how much time I should give Leela to spend on each game on my old laptop to get it to about 4dan. Can somebody who has an external reference for the playing strength of Leela on their computer give an indication for the amount of simulations per move it usually does when playing at that strength? Tens of thousands? A few hundred thousand? A million? Is there a kind of curve where it doesn't really help to do additional simulations?

Or am I misunderstanding how this thing works?

[Anzu]

Try using handicap difference to determine required time. Maybe will take a day to calibrate it properly.

[jorden]

@Anzu, being 13kyu and taking a 9-stone handicap from it in the rated mode, I probably shouldn't worry too much about how strong it is playing relative to say the Leelabot on KGS. In the rated mode it plays out up to a fixed amount of simulations while not taking up more than 30 minutes per game, so my guess its not as strong in the rated mode as the bot on KGS. But that is speculation on my part.

I ran into the author yesterday on KGS and he helped me a bit too understand how to think about the strength in relation to the time I give it and also the time I take.

I find trying to win against Leela and play with a increasingly smaller handicap is very motivating because of the clear goal/focus. The analysis mode is also very nice. And because of the big difference between my 13kyu KGS strength and Leela I'm not very worried about any 'bad habits' I'm picking up.

Any thoughts on if it would be better for learning if I put on a time limit for myself per game (i.e. 20 min. main time + 3x 0:30) instead of just taking as long I have the patience for each move? Or maybe combining both types of games?

[Anzu]

Any thoughts on if it would be better for learning if I put on a time limit for myself per game (i.e. 20 min. main time + 3x 0:30) instead of just taking as long I have the patience for each move? Or maybe combining both types of games?

Could try any opening you want (see picture below)

Could dumb it down to your level.

Could play two moves per every move it makes.

I also play bots

[DrStraw]

Any idea how strong this program is? I am playing it on even with 38 minutes on the clock. It claims this is 4d, but 4d in which system?

[sparky314]

According to leela's rank graph (copied from the leela site), it's just shy of 5d KGS, but no clue what hardware this is on.

[DrStraw]

Thanks. Didn't even realize it played on KGS as I hardly go there anymore. I was playing the standalone download.

[Uberdude]

From dhu (about my strength):

if you don't know about leelabot 4d already, I highly recommend it for reviewing games. It uses monte carlo simulation, with 1 neural network (policy), and is free since april.

I made an account for it on kgs, and running on my laptop, it is already 5d.

It has serious issues with life and death (it thinks dead groups are alive, but if it tries to kill you, you are probably dead), and capture races - it's reading isn't great, and it may play out ladders that fail. Like alphago, it has a preference for settling a position. But such weaknesses just means its global judgement is very good. It values the centre more than most, and it is beautiful to watch a game where it sacrifices 3 side groups in quick succession just to build a massive centre.

I find watching it has opened my mind to more ideas, I am less dismissive of unusual moves, and appreciate that there are more good moves per position than I can see. I like to use it to analysis openings - direction, and when to fight - it is very sensitive to aji. But not so interested in its poor endgame.

I have used it to add notes to one of your games: simulation number (usually in the millions), and winning probability for a selection of moves.

So that should be around KGS or EGF 4d (so stronger than AGA 4d) with a million or two simulations per move.

[pookpooi]

Leela just updated to 0.80 and is now claimed in its webpage to be 5d.
The official Leela account in KGS hasn't play with this version yet, but the unofficial one (LeelaDan) uses 0.80 to play unrated games.

[Garf]

http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?u ... Accounts=y

The new version breached 5d on KGS yesterday.

[pookpooi]

http://www.gokgs.com/gameArchives.jsp?user=Leelabot&oldAccounts=y

The new version breached 5d on KGS yesterday.

The GTP in the latest game still report 0.78 but anyway, it looks like Leela has reached 5d.

[Satorian]

Leela is an awesome piece of work being shared for free.

I hope it gets a value net next. That could give it quite the bump.