was absolutely fine. 
was very bad, and your suggestion of R9 is not so great either. One move in particular should be crying out to you after 
. You are strong enough to find it, but you shouldn't have to find it, it should become instinct.What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
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dfan
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
was absolutely fine. was very bad, and your suggestion of R9 is not so great either. One move in particular should be crying out to you after . You are strong enough to find it, but you shouldn't have to find it, it should become instinct.-
dfan
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
That wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way; I was going somewhere with it. But if you have moved on, I can drop it.dfan wrote:You are using the present tense. Do you still think your four stones from L6 to L9 are strong?Fedya wrote:So once again I'm misjudging the strength of groups?
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dfan
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
No, is a standard good move, and there is a standard good reply.
is a standard good move, and there is a standard good reply.-
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Actually, I think I was using the present tense (technically, the progressive) in the sense that I have a generial tendency to misjudge which groups are strong and which aren't.dfan wrote:That wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way; I was going somewhere with it. But if you have moved on, I can drop it.dfan wrote:You are using the present tense. Do you still think your four stones from L6 to L9 are strong?Fedya wrote:So once again I'm misjudging the strength of groups?
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
S6?dfan wrote:
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Bill Spight
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
First,Fedya wrote:Stronger players say, "Don't be worried about the crosscut!" Indeed, it's already come up in this thread.
Well, wouldn't you know it, I get a game where my opponent crosscuts, and immediately everything goes sour:
Black just played the marked stone, and needless to say, I picked a line that didn't work at all:
After, the game went in a direction where I wound up with one weak group after another, and resigned after Black killed one of them, although I probably would have lost even if I saved all of them. So, I think we can conclude that
I'm guessing I should have played someplace like R9 instead, although all I was was struggling to get small life on the edge of the board, unable to get out into the middle.
As a result of that, I have a feeling the bigger problem was
But after this it looks like Black is going to get a pretty big corner while White isn't going to get all that much along the side or in the center.
is one of those basics that I keep saying you should learn. 
I trust that you have learned it. 
One step at a time. Good thinking.I think we can conclude that
You are learning. That is a pessimistic view. A more cold-blooded analysis is called for. If you always run scared, how will you become a dangerous opponent?although all I was was struggling to get small life on the edge of the board, unable to get out into the middle.
Pretend that you have the Black stones. Would you think that you could enclose the White group, so that it would have to struggle to make small life? Or would you be afraid of an attack on your floating Black stones?
I am guessing that this position arose from some sequence like this.
First, this may not be the best situation to play
. Why? Because 
and 
already have help in the form of 
. It is as though Black got to play two stones in response to . OTOH, if White simply extends to 7, the White wall feels like it is too close to the 
stone. And besides, the stone is there to help in any fighting. Another thought is to hane at "a" instead. In any event, this is not a basic situation. How to play is a matter of judgement.Backing up,
Neither "a" nor "b" seem inviting, so
is a play that you may see in this kind of position. It is joseki. Not one of the basics, but something to keep in mind. The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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dfan
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I think S6 is actually pretty good, though it isn't the first-instinct move I was looking for. Any time you can make this shape:
it is a pretty good sign. I call it the "bear hug".
One move should leap out at you even more, though.
it is a pretty good sign. I call it the "bear hug".
One move should leap out at you even more, though.
OK, I'll drop it.Fedya wrote:Actually, I think I was using the present tense (technically, the progressive) in the sense that I have a generial tendency to misjudge which groups are strong and which aren't.dfan wrote:That wasn't a rhetorical question, by the way; I was going somewhere with it. But if you have moved on, I can drop it.dfan wrote:Do you still think your four stones from L6 to L9 are strong?
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I see in the meantime that Bill Spight suggested Q9, which I never would have considered.dfan wrote:I think S6 is actually pretty good, though it isn't the first-instinct move I was looking for. Any time you can make this shape:
it is a pretty good sign. I call it the "bear hug".
One move should leap out at you even more, though.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Hmmm. I wouldn't have considered that move at all. In response to dfan, I was thinking about Q10, but that didn't seem right either.Bill Spight wrote: First,
Good thinking.I think we can conclude that
That is a pessimistic view. A more cold-blooded analysis is called for. If you always run scared, how will you become a dangerous opponent?although all I was was struggling to get small life on the edge of the board, unable to get out into the middle.
Pretend that you have the Black stones. Would you think that you could enclose the White group, so that it would have to struggle to make small life? Or would you be afraid of an attack on your floating Black stones?
Yes, that is precisely what happened. I didn't playI am guessing that this position arose from some sequence like this.
First, this may not be the best situation to play
at 7 mostly because it seemed as though that way Black would be getting too much territory on the bottom. The idea that it's too close to the marked white stone is, I must admit, another thing I wouldn't have considered.I've seen the slide in josekis that are more in the corner, as though I had approached at b rather than playing the wedge, but that's another thing I didn't consider in the game.Backing up,
Neither "a" nor "b" seem inviting, so
A more general point partly related to this game is that I've thought people looking for reviews ought to go over their games and include their comments in the reviews for a couple of reasons:
1) You might find the blunder that caused you to lose, and why waste other people's time if you can find the mistakes yourself that they would criticize you for?
2) Sometimes it's the moves you don't comment on that are more interesting, and indicative of a lack of knowledge. In this case, it's another thing that I would have found very difficult to spot that perhaps the mistake came before the crosscut. All of the moves up to that point, both White's and Black's, looked so reasonable to me. Stronger players come on the forum and spot it straight away.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
There is a great quote from Kageyama's Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go:Fedya wrote:Hmmm. I wouldn't have considered that move at all. In response to dfan, I was thinking about Q10, but that didn't seem right either.Bill Spight wrote:
So: realize how good thisRealize how good White’s result is. If you cannot understand this, lay the position out on the go board every morning as soon as you get up and chant the words, “White’s thickness is superior."
is, and lay it out on your go board every morning. When Black extends out perpendicularly to your weak stones as with , your first instinct should be to jump out right next to his extension, as with here, not away from his extension, as with R9. This is counterintuitive at first, but see what happens when Black cuts your jump in each case, and all will become clear. Seriously, this is a move your hand should leap to play (not that your hand is always correct...).-
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Good old Kageyama.
In fact, part of the reason I played the hane rather than the extension is because one of the things I keep in mind is Kageyama's chapter on "The Struggle to Get Ahead". If I had simply extended Black could have played a knight's move like O5 rather than just pushing from behind, and that position looked better for Black than my playing the hane did.
I suppose I need to learn more lessons from Kageyama.
In fact, part of the reason I played the hane rather than the extension is because one of the things I keep in mind is Kageyama's chapter on "The Struggle to Get Ahead". If I had simply extended Black could have played a knight's move like O5 rather than just pushing from behind, and that position looked better for Black than my playing the hane did.
I suppose I need to learn more lessons from Kageyama.
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I actually thought that that was what you had in mind when you said R9. My bad.Fedya wrote:I see in the meantime that Bill Spight suggested Q9, which I never would have considered.dfan wrote:One move should leap out at you even more, though.
Here I beg to differ with dfan. Q-09 is one of the basics, but even the basics of go are not all that obvious. If they were, we should all be dan players.
Fedya, there is no shame in not seeing Q-09. It is just a play that you had not seen, neither in your own games, nor in books, nor in pro games. Even kyu players can benefit from seeing pro games. The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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Bill Spight
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
Good!Fedya wrote:Good old Kageyama.
In fact, part of the reason I played the hane rather than the extension is because one of the things I keep in mind is Kageyama's chapter on "The Struggle to Get Ahead". If I had simply extended Black could have played a knight's move like O5 rather than just pushing from behind, and that position looked better for Black than my playing the hane did.
You are developing your judgement.The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
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dfan
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Re: What do I have to do just to get to 5k?
I think we actually agree. I didn't mean that it is obvious from first principles; I meant that this is one of the things that you learn on the way to 5k, and that one of the marks of being a 5k as opposed to, say, a 10k, is that it has become your first instinct. There is zero shame in not knowing it yet. As I mentioned somewhere (probably in this very thread), these sorts of holes in one's knowledge of the fundamentals are a great thing, because they're so easy to fix.Bill Spight wrote:Here I beg to differ with dfan. Q-09 is one of the basics, but even the basics of go are not all that obvious. If they were, we should all be dan players.
My insistence on the fundamentalness of this move was meant to underscore how common and useful it is. It's not some crazy reading technique that appears in tsumego occasionally; it comes up all the time in actual games.