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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #201 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:56 pm 
Tengen
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Liked others: 62
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
lower right is bigger than upper right.. maybe i made a mistake but...it also has to do with aji in the middle so i dont know what is the better answer here...but now i am thinking i should have played lower right...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . 2 . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X 1 . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #202 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:17 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
if i was black i would play as below. it is bigger than my upper left corner. not only that but also he didnt play upper left corner correctly.
monkey jump was really bad choice in my opinion. and right lower corner should have hanne. because of his wrong endgame i have a good chance of winning this game. my invasion if successful will force him to resign.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline Heartless
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #203 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:19 pm 
Beginner

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Rank: 1-2k
KGS: Heartless
Magicwand wrote:
if i was black i would play as below. it is bigger than my upper left corner. not only that but also he didnt play upper left corner correctly.
monkey jump was really bad choice in my opinion. and right lower corner should have hanne. because of his wrong endgame i have a good chance of winning this game. my invasion if successful will force him to resign.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I completely agree. The difference between black and white playing there first is approximately 16 points
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #204 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:33 pm 
Lives in gote
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
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Heartless wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
if i was black i would play as below. it is bigger than my upper left corner. not only that but also he didnt play upper left corner correctly.
monkey jump was really bad choice in my opinion. and right lower corner should have hanne. because of his wrong endgame i have a good chance of winning this game. my invasion if successful will force him to resign.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I completely agree. The difference between black and white playing there first is approximately 16 points


?

I'm not good at end game counting (a few different possible variations to consider depending on who gets sente/reverse sente/gote and I'm never sure how to count them), but I don't see more than maybe 8 points (~4 points for whoever gets there first)?

What are the positions you're comparing?

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Offline ethanb
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #205 Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 7:04 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 355
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Rank: AGA 2d
IGS: ethanb
Numsgil wrote:
Heartless wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
if i was black i would play as below. it is bigger than my upper left corner. not only that but also he didnt play upper left corner correctly.
monkey jump was really bad choice in my opinion. and right lower corner should have hanne. because of his wrong endgame i have a good chance of winning this game. my invasion if successful will force him to resign.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I completely agree. The difference between black and white playing there first is approximately 16 points


?

I'm not good at end game counting (a few different possible variations to consider depending on who gets sente/reverse sente/gote and I'm never sure how to count them), but I don't see more than maybe 8 points (~4 points for whoever gets there first)?

What are the positions you're comparing?


Endgame counting is hard if you really want to find the true value of a move. You have to take follow-ups into account.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x x x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y y . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y y y . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Original position with estimated territory boundaries.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x x x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X d d |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y . . O B d d |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's move considered in isolation is worth approximately 4 points (marked d for delta).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y d 1 O B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y d d . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White's response is gote (even though it has a sente follow-up), so the value we assign to it should be halved; 3/2 = 2.5. Total: 6.5

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x x x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y y 1 O B 6 x |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y y y 5 3 4 x |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is white's privilege and can be considered part of the above diagram (as a shortcut - for the "real deal" I suppose you'd want to consider black's hane/connect in reverse sente and black tenuki at 6 as well - at 1/4 and 1/8 the additional delta points respectively, since they're follow-up to a follow-up [to a follow-up].)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x x x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y d 3 2 W B x x |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y d . . 4 d d d |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black's attachment at 2 (if 1 is a white tenuki) captures the marked stone as well as making the changes marked delta. Gote follow-up is worth half (since it's 50% chance of getting it): 7 points / 2 = 3.5: total 10.


Now we look at white playing first:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x x x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y y . O W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y y y d . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


1 point delta - since this is variation from the initial position, it's added at full value: 11 points.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x x x |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X x B x |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . 4 X . d |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y y d O W 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y y y y . 2 . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black 5 is at the marked stone, which is a lost point from the original position. White and Black's 1 point of gains otherwise cancel out, so +0.5: 11.5

If black tenuki instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . x d d |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X B B d |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . 4 X 2 . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O y y y d O W d 6 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . y y y y y d d d |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is gote follow-up for white, so half-value, but the delta is huge. 10 point delta / 2 = 5 points. Total 16.5

If you want you can go farther, but as each time you add follow-ups you get into fractions of fractions of points, there is a point of diminishing returns.

Ordinarily, if you hit a point where the follow up is worth more than the previous move you should consider the previous move absolute sente. The only time you could consider otherwise is a ko fight, and ko threat value estimates can generally be done without counting to this much precision.

But yeah, total value I get for this endgame play (black vs. white to move from the original position) is 16.5 - so 16 is a proper estimate.

This post by ethanb was liked by 3 people: Ellisdee, ketchup, Numsgil
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #206 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 9:17 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . B . O . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Whatever happens, I can't lose this stone and still win. Now, can that white stone escape? If not I will win for sure.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #207 Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:22 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . W . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

All in!

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #208 Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . B . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hopefully I didn't miss anything obvious. I think I catch it all if he resists like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O 6 4 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . 1 B . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . 3 2 . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #209 Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 1:08 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . . . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O W O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i didnt really read everything...but i think i will live by attacking two stones.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #210 Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:52 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . B . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, well, this connects all my stones. Note that it's very important to answer :w2: on this side:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . 1 2 X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . 3 . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


We'll see what he's got up his sleeve, but I think I won this one.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #211 Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:06 pm 
Judan
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Some idle speculations...
A good try by white looks like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X 7 . , 3 4 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . 8 . . . 6 5 . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . 0 9 . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But white can never get that 5th liberty:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O . , O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . X O . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O 4 3 1 . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X 5 2 . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . 8 7 6 . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So white plays 5 in the first diagram like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . 1 2 . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X 7 . , 3 4 . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . 8 . . . 5 6 . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . 9 0 . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . 8 9 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O . 0 O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X . 5 . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . 6 7 O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O 3 2 1 . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 1 . 3 2 X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X 4 X O 7 O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O . X O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 5 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . 6 X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Bantari
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #212 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:20 am 
Gosei
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Some idle speculations...[hide]A good try by white looks like this:


Not sure I agree with the final sequence.
How about that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 4 . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . X 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O 3 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 2 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kie
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #213 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:35 am 
Lives with ko
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Bantari wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Some idle speculations...[hide]A good try by white looks like this:


Not sure I agree with the final sequence.
How about that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 4 . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . X 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O 3 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 2 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white can pull our a ko here:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 4 5 . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . X 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O . 3 O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 2 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Bantari
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #214 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:50 am 
Gosei
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Kie wrote:
Bantari wrote:

Not sure I agree with the final sequence.
How about that:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 4 . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . X 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O 3 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 2 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think white can pull our a ko here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . 4 5 . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . X 1 . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X O . 3 O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . X 2 O . O X . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . X O O X . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O O X O . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Yeah, you're right.
Very interesting.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #215 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 3:18 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
it is very complicated.. but if professional play white they will find the way to live in the middle. i am not sure but i dont think black can kill white. i read both 'a' and 'b' both look logical and playable. after that...i dont know what will happen..but i will start my reading after his move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #216 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:19 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O B . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see, he plans to live. He has a lot of forcing moves, it might be possible. My only choice now is to try to kill. This move seems much better than jumping.

I don't think he can win if he dies here.

I don't think I can if he doesn't.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #217 Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:27 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , W . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #218 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:38 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
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Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , O B . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't see an obvious tactical refutation of jumping, but this feels a little safer.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #219 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 11:43 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #220 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:39 am 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
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Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc W=2 B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . O . O . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . X X . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . O . . . . X . X . . . O . |
$$ | . . X X O X . . O . X . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . O X O . . . X . O . O O O X . |
$$ | . . O . O X . X O . . X . . . . . X . |
$$ | . O X X . X . X O O O X . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O . . O X . . , O X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . X O O . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O X O X X O O X . . X . . . . . B . |
$$ | . O X . X O O X X X X . . X O . . . . |
$$ | . X . X O O . X O O O . X . X X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . O O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X X . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I don't like the hane if I just extend. The four stones now have five liberties (s9 doesn't count), so they should be safe. Up 'til now I've only had two choices per move but it's about to get a lot more complicated, I think.

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