Why not nationality, as is the case in (I'm pretty sure) every professional sport.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how chess and bridge handle such things?

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What is the advantage of preventing anyone from take part in EGC?

Personally I would not care at all about the europeans champion's nationality or place of residence or whether his name is Hans or Hong.

But the only question should be whether this rule of prohibiting the non-EGF people contributes to the european go or not? The answer may be not obvious but I think it does not contribute.

If you see it as a kind of art and you know that there are other people asia who are more developed in that art, you need a very good justification for preventing european players from learning from the high level competition.

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If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

I think it's just logical that if you're calling someone a "European Champion" then they must be European. Otherwise, change the denomination. (Again, look at any sport; you can't compete if you're not a citizen.)

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The problem is to convince the politicians. While I think that every value from at least 2 to 10 years makes some sense (with different intentions and 5 being my favourite), Jana Hricova (EGF vice-president) supports a strict passport holders only view. You need to convince the delegates!

Nobody is trying to limit the participation to EGC (European Go Congress).

The discussion concerns EC (European Champion) and Open EC (Open European Champion) titles and the tournaments which are used to grant those titles.

I think nationality is also a reasonable criterion. That is, indeed, the common practice in all professional sports (in fact, some sports require a residency period in addition to the nationality.

I don't think changing the definition of European should be very high on the agenda. Very little is gained by it.

Ah, well I think that the UK delegate(s) are taking a relatively reasonable line on this. Do you have any advice for which countries need a bit of lobbying? You might find a useful audience here.

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(Your question makes sense only if you mean European [Closed] Championship and "anyone else".)

- So that one can determine the currently tournament-strongest European.
- So that one can celebrate the European family level of international go community.



"Preventing"?:)

Why? All, of course:)

I didn't mean Congress, I meant Championship.



You will anyway determine the strongest european player even if the first 10 places are occupied by koreans

About "celebrating", I am not sure I would prefer it to promoting the top-level competition. I may be the only one but I would not feel the pride of having a "champion" if I have doubts whther he is 2 stones weaker than an asian player living in europe but not allowed to participate in the championship because of his/her nationality.

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If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

Well, the championship is european. Who cares about the passport of the champion?

Your argument about other soprts is valid but I think Go has a special situation among other sports because it still needs to be promoted a lot in europe. If you consider there are more 5 dan players in korea than there are go players in europe, the need becomes clear.

You can of course say we have our own world and do not always need to compete against asians. This is also a valid argument. But I think this would reduce the value of the chance of having strong asian players living here and are willing to take part in european championships.

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If you say no, Elwood and I will come here for breakfast, lunch, and dinner every day of the week.

The current British Open golf champion is South African amd the reigning French Open tennis champion is Spanish. Soccer, baseball, hockey and basketball teams are full of immigrant talent. What was your point again?

I don't know why you ask this when I'm sure that you know the answer - I believe this post that I'm sure you are aware of http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... en&ct=clnk qualifies as evidence for the reality. (There is no denial here, it is upfront. Others, I believe, assert a widespread interest in determining who is the best European when I doubt that is if of much interest to the bulk of EG congress goers).

Yes, thats why they are "open".

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Those are national championships, which is a different matter. Is there any European and/or World Championship in any major sport that allows non-citizens to represent countries?

The recent FIFA world cup only allowed passport holders in national teams. Same thing is true for the European Championship.

The FIFA actually have additional rules in place, such as requiring passport holders to also have been resident for a sufficient period of time in the country they want to play for, or to have been born there, etc. Extra rules meant to prevent countries from unfairly influencing the competition by quickly granting citizenship to strong players who otherwise have no relation to the country in question.

The current open european go champion is korean.

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A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

It seemed that the proposal was being ridiculed quite unfairly.

But your post is (also ?) an attack on the poster rather than an evaluation of the proposal.

Some people like the proposed idea and it has the merit of being straightforward to apply. I think it is better than a residency test as it is an encouragement for resident aliens to participate. Personally I would not propose a threshold of less than a dozen and I see no harm in applying it to all nationalities if it were thought discriminatory.

First, open tournaments are just that - they are not national or regional championships. Second, did you watch the World Cup? Were there any players who weren't citizens of the countries they represented? What was your point again?

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Yes, but they were representing their countries in a team sport. That's hugely different to representing yourself as an individual. No one is expecting Hwang In-Seong to represent Germany at the WAGC for example.

Those are not national championships; ie, they don't determine who is the British or French champions. (FWIW, the "French Open" is not called the French Open in France...) For comparison, I've been watching the Tour de France. Each rider who is a national champion (ie, selected in a race in his country for citizens of the country) is allowed, at certain times, to wear their national champion's jersey. But the winner of the Tour de France is not considered the French national champion.

There's really nothing that's hard to understand in this concept, and I'm pretty amazed that there are people here who don't understand.

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