#265 dfan vs ThetaHat

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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wow he is giving up a lot of points...he does get sente which is kinda big, but I still think locally the result is good for me
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O O X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . O X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It now occurs to me that this may not even be sente (there's no life or death at stake, just points). But it does threaten a capture worth 14 points that is basically sente itself (else I squeeze with J16 and J17).
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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 1 . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am gonna take because it makes my group super strong. If he dares to hane at J16, I will cut.
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 1 . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I have to try to make all of my stones work together. I'm clearly behind, so I'm making an ambitious move. I would like to hane at the top, but I think Black would just ignore it; even if I then curl around and atari, and then capture two stones to get connected, I've spent three gote moves. I don't think I can afford to do that.
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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If I push the white stone now, I may not get the result I want since white urgently needs to build the center.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Even though white is forming a double wing, taking the 3-3 doesn't look good.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 9 2 O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 4 6 8 . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I could consider approaching from this side and then attacking the one white stone, but my base is too narrow, I don't like it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . 5 . W . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 1 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If I approach from this side and get kicked, I can have a more efficient base. White's bottom isn't gonna make a lot of points because I can undercut the 4th line stones. I can even attack the marked group later.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X W X X X W W . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W W W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 4 . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If white pincers, which I think he should, I gonna fight like this.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

I guess this game isn't very interesting, given that no spectators have made any comments yet. :(
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Use thickness to attack! I still probably shouldn't be too happy about recent developments, but at least this continuation fits my narrative, and all of my stones have a meaning.
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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Maybe it is because our ranks are too low? :sad:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Going to the corner looks bad, especially when the marked stone is on the 4th line...White can just keep pushing and completely seal me in.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 2 O 4 0 . . . W . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 7 1 3 . 9 . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I am planning for something like this...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 O 9 5 . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 7 0 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
White is very thick on the top, so I need to get out to the center.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X X . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
This double hane is very big...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X 5 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O 1 4 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . 2 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit: I added more comments to my moves
Last edited by ThetaHat on Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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hyperpape
Tengen
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by hyperpape »

I wonder if a higher pincer would have worked better here, and left Black fewer options to prioritize the outside.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 6 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . O . 3 . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
But this variation looks like it might lead to White being a bit over-concentrated?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 6 . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 . O . 3 . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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kex
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by kex »

Use thickness to attack! I still probably shouldn't be too happy about recent developments, but at least this continuation fits my narrative, and all of my stones have a meaning.
How come this is using thickness to attack? I don't understand. To me, this would be more like using thickness to attack:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 3 . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
If black makes a too long extension with 37, white would comfortably invade in between, so white would get more.
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daal
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by daal »

dfan wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm12
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . X . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't like this white move. The problem with it is that it invites the black response at c16, leaving white in a position where his head is bumped. This also creates the possibility for the uncomfortable "bear hug" that takes place later when b plays d18.

Edit: unhiding this as it has no effect on the game.
Patience, grasshopper.
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

@daal:
As you can see from the fact that I changed my mind about the followup one move later, I had second thoughts too. :) I thought that the move I chose was part of a joseki (if you ignore the extra exchange at G17/G16), but I could definitely be wrong (or it could be inappropriate here).
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I know Black's move is valid, but I can't actually remember anyone ever playing it against me! I'm pretty sure I'm supposed to pull back, but with my wall I'd probably end up being overconcentrated, plus it even has an open skirt at the bottom (though maybe that isn't as bad as it looks; if Black tries the monkey jump I think I can play B14, after which A14 B16 A16 is a ko).

I bet this cut isn't "correct", but I have strength in the vicinity, and I probably need to start a fight at some point if I'm going to come back. I looked at a few variations but I don't think there's much point in transcribing any of them yet.
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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I guess this is the only move. This seems like an overplay for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . 4 2 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 3 O X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 8 X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 3 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It looks fine for me, at least in these two variations.
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dfan
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by dfan »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm38 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Let's do this. I extended from my weaker stone (I think), as I am instructed. I'm not going to bother with variations yet, because 1) so many different things could happen, and 2) I have lots more stones around, so I shouldn't have to worry that I'm going to get wrecked. For example, if Black ends up with the corner but I get another good wall, that should be okay.
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ThetaHat
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Re: #265 dfan vs ThetaHat

Post by ThetaHat »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39 Prisoner Count: B-4 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Let's count how many points I got after I play the driving tesuji.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O C . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . C X . X . X X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | C X O X X X O O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | C C X O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X 2 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 O C . . . . O . . . . . , X C C |
$$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . . . . C . . . . . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Top left: 24
Top right: 6
Bottom left: 21
Bottom right: 12
Total: 63 points

White can surround 60 points in the center but I doubt he can do that without giving me more points on the side.
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