Questions about the organizational part of western Go

[CANO]

Hi, I have recently taken an interest in the organizational part of western Go. By that I think of recruiting, tournaments, club environment etc.
I’m here to ask about thoughts and success/failure stories from all of you.

I’m not sure if I should ask broad general question to get more of a discussion going, or be more specific.
But I’m going with a mix of both. I will hide my “opinions” in spoiler tags such that one can more easily identity the questions.

Please keep in mind that this is based on my experience, and I have only been to a handful of clubs,
and if I say something which you cannot identify with, please call it out.

Regarding recruiting members for a local Go club, what kind of recruiting have been more successful? Posters, Playing in public, Local news paper, etc.

Getting newly recruited members to stay? A commonly occurring problem seems to be that members show up once, maybe for a beginner course, and then don’t show up again.

Personally I think this is because of the lax attitude at clubs.
While this lax environment is sufficient for novices and intermediate players, I personally believe beginners needs more structure and follow-up.
When comparing return rate after first visit with other sports and activities it seems we are having unusually bad numbers.
In other activities it is very common to have classes, being in a club often means having a coach/teacher, getting follow-up, for many activities even “homework” is common.

It seems lot’s of Go clubs lives and dies with students, especially university students.
A club can blossom a few years, but unfortunately the majority moves when they finish school and the club may die. What are some solutions for this?

Without “older” more permanent residents taking interest, this kind of sudden deaths of clubs seems to continue.
This ties into the first topic of recruiting, but what are measures that can be taken such that “older” people would like to meet/play at a club dominated by students. Often also at school premises.
I do not know if these people would like a lax environment or having beginner classes. Does it bother them that the club is on a university campus etc.

Yearly membership fee. In the handful of clubs I have been to, only one have been having a membership fee.
When I visit other western club websites, it seems most either don’t have one, or it is less than 15 euros.
Do the clubs not feel that they need money? Are they worried that having a/ a greater membership fee will turn off members?

When comparing membership fees to all other activities the Go clubs don’t charge a fraction of most other activities.
Even when comparing with Chess clubs in my country they charge more than ten times of what Go club does.
I think its a draw back that membership fees are not more common, since everything costs money. And even if one does not need money today, they do tomorrow.
I also believe in supporting the stronger players(which I’m not one of), and younger talents when they arise, and membership money is often the source of this support.

Over to tournaments. What makes people travel far to tournaments(assuming one have time)?
Tournament prizes that cover travel costs? Knowing players of same strength will attend? Visiting pro to review games? Knowing the facilities will be good? Class A tournaments? Amount of rounds?
What are your thoughts?

I have few thoughts here, just that I think I personally focus more on the facilities than maybe the majority of people.
I’m mostly indifferent to most other variables except that I like the facilities to feel good, I don’t enjoy playing in a gymnasium.
But I also understand that everyone cannot afford booking venues a hotel such as Irish Confucius Cup did.

I'm thankful for any suggestions, stories, tips etc. I believe in learning from experience,
and think many already have experience within this organizational part.
If you don't it would be helpful to give your thoughts on the matter regardless.

- cano

[Drew]

I think the scope of your questions is too small. I recommend "stepping back" and asking a much broader question: why should a Go club exist?

Before the advent of easy, instantaneous online go play and online communities such as this one, a local Go club was likely the only way to learn the game and participate with others. That is not true anymore, and will never be true again.

To be successful, which is another way of saying "to continue existing", is to provide something(s) to Go enthusiasts or potential Go enthusiasts that they cannot (or cannot as easily) acquire elsewhere.

That could be personalized instruction, it could be tournaments and ladders, it could be strong social bonds, it could be as simple as fancy equipment... but there needs to be something. Everything else you mention is subordinate to this first fundamental question.

[daal]

To be successful, which is another way of saying "to continue existing", is to provide something(s) to Go enthusiasts or potential Go enthusiasts that they cannot (or cannot as easily) acquire elsewhere.

One thing that a club has to offer is the guarantee of a bot-free game.

[EdLee]

Hi Cano,

The spectrum of questions can range from the more cosmic "Why are we here/what's the meaning of life?" to the more specific "Which equipment to use?" and anywhere in between.

As for "western," do you mean "other than Japan, Korea, or China" or do you have something else more specific in mind ?

[Mef]

In terms of recruiting and keeping active players, in my experience the biggest positive for a club has been a strong social component along with regular meetings in a public place.

A simple illustration of the social component: some of the "strongest" clubs I've been to would have an environment where a member will stop by, have a cup of tea, and chat with their friends even if they don't have time for a full game. The presence of a fun social atmosphere outside of just the go games greatly reduces the barrier to entry for a newcomer and provides something that's harder to get from just logging onto a web server and playing a game. This is particularly true if you are trying to recruit university students. Many university students are willing to hang out with their friends in a coffee shop without an additional reason...so if you can have a go board there all the better.

Regular meetings are important, because if people aren't sure that you will be there they will be less likely to show up on their own , having a regularly updated webpage / newsletter (even if it just says "Hey, we'll be out there again this week") is key.

Public place is important because it increases your new potential new member pool, and also reduces the commitment level of finding the club. If you meet in the back room of the 3rd floor of the campus library, someone really has to want to find you if they are going to play, and it's a socially "higher risk" proposition for them if you aren't going to be there (It might be hard to find, they don't really have any other reason to go to the 3rd floor of that library, etc). If you are outside at the coffee shop at Main St. and 2nd ave, then it's a familiar location they might be passing by anyway, and if they don't find the go club they can always grab a coffee and read a book.

[CANO]

In terms of recruiting and keeping active players, in my experience the biggest positive for a club has been a strong social component along with regular meetings in a public place.

A simple illustration of the social component: some of the "strongest" clubs I've been to would have an environment where a member will stop by, have a cup of tea, and chat with their friends even if they don't have time for a full game. The presence of a fun social atmosphere outside of just the go games greatly reduces the barrier to entry for a newcomer and provides something that's harder to get from just logging onto a web server and playing a game. This is particularly true if you are trying to recruit university students. Many university students are willing to hang out with their friends in a coffee shop without an additional reason...so if you can have a go board there all the better.

Regular meetings are important, because if people aren't sure that you will be there they will be less likely to show up on their own , having a regularly updated webpage / newsletter (even if it just says "Hey, we'll be out there again this week") is key.

Public place is important because it increases your new potential new member pool, and also reduces the commitment level of finding the club. If you meet in the back room of the 3rd floor of the campus library, someone really has to want to find you if they are going to play, and it's a socially "higher risk" proposition for them if you aren't going to be there (It might be hard to find, they don't really have any other reason to go to the 3rd floor of that library, etc). If you are outside at the coffee shop at Main St. and 2nd ave, then it's a familiar location they might be passing by anyway, and if they don't find the go club they can always grab a coffee and read a book.

Interesting, I agree with most, but for sure having a good social component is key. When it comes to being in a public place I agree when thinking of access to the club. 3rd floor library isn't something people always wanna search for. However, the success of being visible such as having the club regularly play in very public places as the cafeteria haven't given any result when it comes to recruitment. This might differ for country to country with the difference in culture of personal space. Would you rather that a club have their meetings in a cafeteria/coffee shop than having their own space/floor in a building(assuming this is not hidden away in the 3rd floor at a campus library)?

Hi Cano,

The spectrum of questions can range from the more cosmic "Why are we here/what's the meaning of life?" to the more specific "Which equipment to use?" and anywhere in between.

As for "western," do you mean "other than Japan, Korea, or China" or do you have something else more specific in mind ?

When I wrote western I meant to exclude countries such as Japan, Korea, China and maybe other Asian countries where the majority of citizens already know of the game.

My questions in a nutshell boils down to what does American and European clubs do to recruit members, keep members, gain money.
And what people consider when deciding to attend tournaments.

I think the scope of your questions is too small. I recommend "stepping back" and asking a much broader question: why should a Go club exist?

Before the advent of easy, instantaneous online go play and online communities such as this one, a local Go club was likely the only way to learn the game and participate with others. That is not true anymore, and will never be true again.

To be successful, which is another way of saying "to continue existing", is to provide something(s) to Go enthusiasts or potential Go enthusiasts that they cannot (or cannot as easily) acquire elsewhere.

That could be personalized instruction, it could be tournaments and ladders, it could be strong social bonds, it could be as simple as fancy equipment... but there needs to be something. Everything else you mention is subordinate to this first fundamental question.

Sure, one could always step back far, however that won't really answer my questions efficiently. We can just assume that we humans are social creatures and have an interest to play in a club as demonstrated in all activities which one could escape to the internet. The questions wants to answer your third line: "is to provide something(s) to Go enthusiasts or potential Go enthusiasts that they cannot (or cannot as easily) acquire elsewhere."

[Gotraskhalana]

.

[Gotraskhalana]

One thing that a club has to offer is the guarantee of a bot-free game.

I have no trouble finding bot-free games on the internet. No bot plays like my regular opponents.

[Pio2001]

Hi, I've been a member of the go club of Lyon, France, for 3 years. We currently have 57 registered players.

Getting newly recruited members to stay? A commonly occurring problem seems to be that members show up once, maybe for a beginner course, and then don’t show up again.

I think that it is important to welcome properly newcomers. If all they get the first day is "the website is here, the room is open each saturday from 2pm to 8 pm, you can come when you want", chances are high that this member won't show up often.
I'd rather see something like presenting the newcomer to everyone present that day, explaining who's in charge of what, sending a mail to all members to introduce the new player, and having a teacher play and review a complete game with him/her.

Over to tournaments. What makes people travel far to tournaments(assuming one have time)?
Tournament prizes that cover travel costs? Knowing players of same strength will attend? Visiting pro to review games? Knowing the facilities will be good? Class A tournaments? Amount of rounds?
What are your thoughts?

For me it would be players of the same strength. I'm not interested in prizes since I have no chance of winning any.
I'm interested in pro reviews, but in this case, I rather register to lectures, where I am sure that the pro will actually play with me and review my game. In a tournament, I don't expect my games to be reviewed.

[Mef]

Interesting, I agree with most, but for sure having a good social component is key. When it comes to being in a public place I agree when thinking of access to the club. 3rd floor library isn't something people always wanna search for. However, the success of being visible such as having the club regularly play in very public places as the cafeteria haven't given any result when it comes to recruitment. This might differ for country to country with the difference in culture of personal space. Would you rather that a club have their meetings in a cafeteria/coffee shop than having their own space/floor in a building(assuming this is not hidden away in the 3rd floor at a campus library)?

I can only speak to my experiences (which in an organizational capacity are admittedly skewed toward clubs in US college towns) --

Personally, when we would schedule regular club meetings (even with an updated website and regular mailing list updates) if the location was an "out of the way" place such as a dedicated classroom, or alcove in a library, attendance was poor. If we would send out a mailing to the same list saying "Hey I will be at (coffee shop / public space / etc) with a board if anyone wants a game" attendance would be surprisingly good, even if the events were at similar times (e.g. "Official meeting is cancelled but I will be at the student union with a board" gets more people at the student union than the last 3 official meetings, even though the official meetings are in the building next door).

Meetings in public spaces would be great for raising awareness and occasionally would rope in a new member, but (and this is an important but), you would have to "earn" it. If you have the club meeting in a coffee shop or cafeteria, and folks are just sitting in the corner quietly staring at boards then it takes a special effort for someone to come up and ask about it. If you have a game where you and your opponent are chatting and joking with each other, or if there's an observer who is talking with the person who isn't up to play...that creates an environment where people can ask about the game. Sometimes you might need to go out of your way to "rope them in" for instance, if you see a person watching your game from afar but not talking you might need to start up a conversation with them. Bringing in new people often requires meeting them a little more than halfway, and that can be a bit tough...but it's how you grow!