Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:04 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . . b . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . c . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I haven't researched moves to use when playing against a sanrensai opening very much. (I haven't researched any particular opening much, actually.) I'm using the Nihon Ki-in Small Encyclopedia of Fuseki to find candidate moves in this position, and it looks like a, b, and c are my primary candidate moves. I've put a few of the main lines into an sgf file to show what I am thinking could happen:

The 3-3 invasion seems to be the most common move here and is consistent with my earlier stated intentions, but I want to look at this position just a little more.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:25 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . . @ . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:24 pm

Difficult to decide if

should be a king.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . @ @ . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 1 X O 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 2 W 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

B also has to decide whether and when to activate (

-

) sequence.

luigi · Post by **luigi** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:24 am

Just wanted to let you know that I've reverted to the original scoring: kings only, no territories. Thanks for your feedback.

Also, I've written up an entry for Kingo on Sensei's Library.

daal · Post by **daal** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:52 am

As it stands, the traditional divide of playing for territory vs. playing for influence seems to make it quite a bit easier, at least in the early stages of the game, for the territorial player to play kings. The influence player is banking on having advantages in later fights, but fights are where things die making it seem rather risky to play a king... Interesting to see how the game proceeds. Thanks to both players for being guinea pigs

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:59 am

daal wrote:As it stands, the traditional divide of playing for territory vs. playing for influence seems to make it quite a bit easier, at least in the early stages of the game, for the territorial player to play kings. The influence player is banking on having advantages in later fights, but fights are where things die making it seem rather risky to play a king... Interesting to see how the game proceeds. Thanks to both players for being guinea pigs

I agree, but the group tax mitigates that somewhat. That’s part of why I think it’s important to retain that rule.

It’s a good learning experience to play his game. I have to be much more thoughtful about what’s really alive, what *might* become territory, and what I’m willing to sacrifice. I can play intuitively and change my mind frequently; this requires me to make a plan and stick to it (somewhat).

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm

My last move may have gotten lost in the conversation, so I thought I’d bump this thread with a trigger.

Trigger:

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:07 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . W W . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . B X B . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trigger accepted.

Sorry, it wasn't forgotten, I just had a lack of time recently...nothing that interesting, but for instance, last night I tried to sneak time for a response, but the younger of my kids didn't go to bed until 10:30 ><.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:27 am

No problem! I have two small kids, so I totally understand!

This next move seems really important, so it might take me a while to sort through the possibilities.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:30 am

luigi · Post by **luigi** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:01 pm

Might be a stupid question, but where's White 30?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:17 pm

Hi luigi, o18.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . 3 . 2 . 6 @ . . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . 7 X 5 . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |[/go]

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:17 pm

luigi wrote:Might be a stupid question, but where's White 30?

O18. The order of moves isn’t clear because I played a bunch of kings in the trigger.

luigi · Post by **luigi** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:38 pm

Oh, right, thanks.

jeromie · Post by **jeromie** » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:42 pm

In general I feel good about this position, but there are some major considerations regarding my next move.

If I leave the upper right corner to play at 32, the moves to 37 give black a ko for the corner. (I found this sequence right after I played the joseki in the trigger, naturally.) Normally this ko would be very bad for black at this point, but with the kings I've played in the corner I need to be careful, especially since black has at least three absolute ko threats in the sequence a-f.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . 4 5 | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . W W 3 . | $$ | . f W , . . . . . , . . . . B X B 6 7 | $$ | . e O X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . a X O d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . b W c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Capturing the stone in the upper left would be too slow right now, so I need to find another way to remove the aji. The most natural idea is to play either a or b:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . W W a . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . B X B b . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Retaining sente is important so I can get a move in the lower right before black turns his massive moyo into territory, so I think a is the best option. But will it really retain sente, or will black tenuki?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Retains sente, but helps black solidify the right side $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . W W W . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . B X B B . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm31 Black tenukis - is it good enough? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . X . O . W W W . | $$ | . . W , . . . . . , . . . . B X B . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . 4 . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . W X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . W O X X . X . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O W . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I need to do a count to decide if these options are playable for white. I don't have time for that right now, so my move will wait for later.

Life In 19x19

Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape

Re: Kingo Malkovitch#1: Jeromie vs. Hyperpape