Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

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Bill Spight
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

RobertJasiek wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Position 3
$$| X X . . .
$$| O X . . .
$$| O X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| O O . . .
$$| . . . . .
$$| . . . . .[/go]
The local endgame in position 3 is the game {4|0} with the count C = (4+0)/2 = 2 and move value M = (4-0)/2 = 2.

Extracting the count, we can write the game as {4|0} = 2 + {2|-2}, which chills to 2 + {1|-1}. The right summand is not *.

If we extract 3, we can write the game as {4|0} = 3 + {1|-3}, which chills to 3 + {0|-2}. Again, the right summand is not *. Extracting a number different from the count cannot produce *, either.

Does this mean that chilling does not add any infinitesimal to the count?
The local game is {4|0}, which chills to {3|1} = 2 + {1|-1}. There is no infinitesimal.
Rounding C in favour of the starting player predicts the outcomes 2 for Black's start or 2 for White's start. So with rounding, we do not predict the correct outcomes.
There is no rounding.
Using the count and move value, we can predict the outcomes: C + M = 2 + 2 = 4 if Black starts and C - M = 2 - 2 = 0 if White starts.
Yes.
Why does chilling as an alternative for predicting the outcome work for position 1 but does not work for position 3? Or how to use chilling so that it also works for position 3?
Chilling is not an alternative for predicting the outcome. It did not "work" for position 1, as you think.

More later. :)
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

Bill, many thanks for your, as usual, very helpful explanations!

Now, I realise that I must separate analysis and values of unchilled and chilled game carefully. MGE chilling is thrice as difficult as I feared: 1) understanding the unchilled game, 2) the chilled game and 3) how the findings for the chilled game provide information for the unchilled game.

Although I am awaiting your remaining answers, here is yet another question: you wrote that temperature theory was easier than CGT chilling but can linear algebra (no, not thermographs, which I perceive yet another layer of complication) representing temperature equations solve everything that MGE solves with chilling?
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

RobertJasiek wrote:Bill, many thanks for your, as usual, very helpful explanations!
De nada. :)
Now, I realise that I must separate analysis and values of unchilled and chilled game carefully. MGE chilling is thrice as difficult as I feared: 1) understanding the unchilled game, 2) the chilled game and 3) how the findings for the chilled game provide information for the unchilled game.
Chilled go is a simplification of territory scoring, just as some forms of territory scoring, such as Spight or Lasker-Maas or Ikeda scoring may be regarded as simplifications of area scoring. And, with some exceptions, correct play in chilled go is also correct play by territory scoring, just as, with some exceptions, correct play by territory scoring is also correct play by area scoring. The exceptions, OC, have to do with ko.

So chilled go without kos is a simpler game than territory scoring, and that simplicity can help with analysis and with finding correct play. However, there are plays that are incorrect in chilled go but are still correct by territory scoring. Examples abound, even in pro play. Why not? They have read the game out, anyway. Chilled go also has something that territory go does not have, and that is a variety of infinitesimals. A dame is an infinitesimal, and you can construct others, but in modern territory go infinitesimals can be ignored. In chilled go they can be crucial to winning.

If you know CGT, you already know a good bit about infinitesimals, which you can immediately apply to chilled go. But most go players do not know CGT, and so chilling does not have that advantage for them. Go players do know that getting the last play can be important, but are generally clueless about how to go about doing that, except by reading the game out.

Now, in chilled go play stops once we reach a number, which may be a fraction. This may be useful to go players, because it means that, except in ko situations, once the global temperature drops below 1, they can generally stop reading and round the unchilled result up or down to the nearest integer, depending on who has the play. It is true that some positions with temperature below 1 are tricky, but that bridge can usually be crossed later. :)
Although I am awaiting your remaining answers, here is yet another question: you wrote that temperature theory was easier than CGT chilling but can linear algebra (no, not thermographs, which I perceive yet another layer of complication) representing temperature equations solve everything that MGE solves with chilling?
Well, naive temperature theory, which says to make the hottest play, is easier than working out unfamiliar infinitesimals, but is more prone to error. Any time you rely upon mean values you introduce the possibility of error. Finding the mean value and temperature of a game is, as I have noted, a form of defuzzification, with the temperature as the maximum error when there are no kos. So using algebra with mean values and temperatures may improve on the naive theory, but will still produce errors. Chilling makes getting exact solutions easier. :)
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

RobertJasiek wrote: I study positions 2 and 3 because they occur as white followers for positions with tiny:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Position 4
$$| X X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| O X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| O O . . .
$$| . . . . .
$$| . . . . .[/go]
To calculate White's incentive in the local endgame in position 4, we need to know whether the chilled count of the local endgame in position 2 contains a *. Does it?
To get the miai value you need count, which does not contain any infinitesimal. To get the incentive you need the game. The chilled game in position 2 does not contain a *.
I think that the chilled count of the local endgame in position 4 is c = 3Tiny_1. Right?
The count is 3, in both chilled go and territory scoring.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B Position 5
$$| X X . . .
$$| O X . . .
$$| O X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| . X . . .
$$| O O . . .
$$| . . . . .
$$| . . . . .[/go]
To calculate White's incentive in the local endgame in position 5, we need to know whether the chilled count of the local endgame in position 3 contains a *. Does it?
The chilled game in position 2 does not contain a *.
I think that the chilled count of the local endgame in position 5 is c = 4Tiny_2. Right?
The count is 4.

More on rounding later. :)
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

Why Berlekamp and Wolfe do not apply rounding to chilled go games, but to regular go games under territory scoring, and only to the whole board

The game, {2|1}, has a mean value of 1½ and a temperature of ½. It may be written as 1½ + {½ | -½}. If Black plays first the result is 2, if White plays first the result is 1. Rounding up or down to the nearest integer works.

However, rounding does not work for the game, {¾ | -¼}. It may be written as ¼ + {½ | -½}. If Black plays first the result is ¾, not 1, and if White plays first the result is -¼, not 0. {¾ | -¼} could be a chilled go game, which is why rounding does not always work in chilled go.

But {¾ | -¼} is not a game under territory scoring, because territory scores are integers. (Yes, it is possible to construct positions which, in theory, should be fractions by territory scoring, but they involve kos and are not, therefore, combinatorial games.)

Rounding works for territory scoring because the scores are integers. Rounding requires these additional conditions:

1) The game is a CGT game, i.e., without any ko.
2) The temperature, t, of the game is such that 0 < t < 1.
3) The mean value of the game lies between two integers.

Rounding is useful when chilling because we stop play in chilled go when the game is a number, and if that number is fractional, play will continue in regular go under territory scoring. Rounding then tells us what the result will be with correct play under territory scoring. We do not have to read anything out, unless we don't know correct play. We only apply rounding to the whole board, because reaching a number in a local position does not necessarily stop play. There may be other places left to play in.

For example, suppose that we end play in chilled go with a result of ¾. In regular go that is the game, {2|1||0}, ignoring dame. White to play moves to 0, Black to play moves to {2|1} and then White continues to 1. We do not have to work this out. All we have to do is round down to 0 if White has the move and round up to 1 if Black has the move. Easy. :)
Last edited by Bill Spight on Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

Extraordinarily clear explanation!
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

Glad you like. :D
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

QUESTION 10:

Suppose the game {2|0} chilling to {1|1}. From the chilled game, we extract a count, 1, to identify the infinitesimal * in the sum 1 + *.

Which count do we extract? That of the game or that of the chilled game?

Is the count of the game equal to the count of the chilled game if a) there are no kos and b) the count of the chilled game is a number possibly plus infinitesimals? Exactly when in general are the two counts equal?

If there are no kos, is it possible (how) that the count of the chilled game is not a number possibly plus infinitesimals?
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

Chilling does not affect the count. :)
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

Ok.

Is there a theorem for this, maybe in Aaron Siegel's CGT book?

So you are saying that even local kos and global kos do not affect the count when chilling?

***

How about the move values? Is the move value of a game always 1 larger than the move value of the chilled-by-1 game? Is there a theorem for this? Independent of any kos?
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

RobertJasiek wrote:Ok.

Is there a theorem for this, maybe in Aaron Siegel's CGT book?
With no kos or sekis, chilling is equivalent to cooling by 1 pt. Cooling does not affect the count (mean value). This was proved in On Numbers and Games.
So you are saying that even local kos and global kos do not affect the count when chilling?
As for kos and superkos, there is no single way of evaluating them. They are not combinatorial games. That is why we talk about mast values rather than mean values.

You know that territory scoring may be regarded as chilled area scoring. And, because of rule differences regarding kos and sekis, those scores may differ by more than one point. (Infinitesimals in territory scoring, normally just dame, can make a difference of one point between the territory score and the area score, just as infinitesimals in chilled go can make a difference of one point in territory scoring.)

As far as I know, nobody actually uses chilling to study ko positions.
How about the move values? Is the move value of a game always 1 larger than the move value of the chilled-by-1 game? Is there a theorem for this? Independent of any kos?
Under area scoring each board play adds one point to the player's territory. Territory scoring chills area scoring by not adding that point for each board play. Each board play in chilled go subtracts one point from the player's territory.
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

Bill Spight wrote:This was proved in On Numbers and Games.
Very nice!

This means that my last two hours have been wasted, except for having performed exercises, with which I only prove special cases:


Theorem:

The count C of the local gote {R||S|W} (with R>S>W) equals the count C' of the chilled game {R-1||S|W+2}.

Proof:

As a local gote, {R||S|W} has the count C = (R + (S+W)/2) / 2.

The count of the white follower {S|W+2} of the chilled game is 1 larger than the count X := (S+W)/2 of {S|W} of the unchilled game. Therefore, the gote count of the chilled game is the gote count of {R-1|X+1} and is C' = ((R-1) + (X+1)) / 2 = (R+X)/2 = (R + (S+W)/2) / 2 = C. QED.


Theorem:

The count C of the local sente {R||S|W} (with R>S>W) equals the count C' of the chilled game {R-1||S|W+2}.

Proof:

As a local sente, {R||S|W} has the count C = S.

Lemma: The chilled game {R-1||S|W+2} is a local sente.

Proof of lemma:

Using the assumption of having a local sente, we apply that a local sente fulfils R - S < (S+W)/2 (the sente move value is smaller than the follow-up move value).
R - S < (S+W)/2 =>
(R - S) - 1 < (S+W)/2 + 1 =>
R - 1 - S < (S + W + 2) / 2 =>
(R-1) - S < (S + (W+2))/2 =>
we can substitute R' = R-1 and W' = W+2, apply the assumption again so the chilled game {R-1||S|W+2} also is a local sente. QED.

As a local sente, its count is C' = S.

We have C' = C = S. QED.
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by RobertJasiek »

QUESTIONS 11:

This is about Figure 2.12 and its procedure in chapter 2.5 in conjunction with Theorem 5 in chapter 4.4.

What does "pair off infinitesimals which are negatives of one another and therefore add to 0" mean?

The theorem speaks of "no two summing to zero" so I suppose it only applies pairwise. Pair off

- star with star
- up-x with down-x
- up-x-star with down-x-star
- tiny-x with miny-x
- 0^n|tiny-x with miny-x|0^n

Is it correct that the procedure and theorem do NOT mean to ignore any combination of at least three infinitesimal values summing to zero? E.g., is it correct that we are NOT supposed to ignore the combination of the values up-2-star + down + down + star, which sum to zero but are not a value pair (they are not equal options aka miai, as we call it)?

Is it correct NOT to pair off tiny-x with miny-x|0^n?

Is it correct NOT to pair off miny-x with 0^n|tiny-x?

Is it correct NOT to pair off 0^n|tiny-x with miny-x|0^m; n <> m?

What exactly does "attack long corridors and/or defend attacks on tinys" mean? What corridors are "long"? Whose tinys? What is a defense against an attack on a tiny?

What does "The remaining infinitesimals should all be positive [...]" mean, considering that the previous step of the precedure included "attack long corridors and/or defend attacks on tinys"? What long corridors are "positive", are tinys "positive" and in which sense is either "positive"?

Does Figure 2.12 and its move order only apply to the chilled game or does it equally apply to normal unchilled go and its move order? Does the procedure only apply to the chilled game or does it equally apply to normal unchilled go?

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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

RobertJasiek wrote:QUESTIONS 11:

This is about Figure 2.12 and its procedure in chapter 2.5 in conjunction with Theorem 5 in chapter 4.4.

What does "pair off infinitesimals which are negatives of one another and therefore add to 0" mean?
Assuming that "off" is a typo for "of", it means what it says. X + (-X) = 0.
The theorem speaks of "no two summing to zero" so I suppose it only applies pairwise.
I'll take a look in the morning, so I am not sure. OC, it is possible to have three infinitesimals that add to 0. E. g., ^* + v + * = 0. If you have any games that add to 0 and there are no kos, offhand I don't know why you wouldn't ignore them.


Is it correct NOT to pair off tiny-x with miny-x|0^n?

Is it correct NOT to pair off miny-x with 0^n|tiny-x?

Is it correct NOT to pair off 0^n|tiny-x with miny-x|0^m; n <> m?
Yes to all three. :)
What exactly does "attack long corridors and/or defend attacks on tinys" mean? What corridors are "long"?
I guess they are taking Black's point of view. A long corridor I expect is one with a non-zero atomic weight. As Black you want to eliminate negative positions so that White does not get the last play.
Whose tinys?
Black's, I suppose, since tinies are positive.
What is a defense against an attack on a tiny?
Answer the sente.
What does "The remaining infinitesimals should all be positive [...]" mean
An infinitesimal is positive if Black can get the last local play, no matter who plays first.
Does Figure 2.12 and its move order only apply to the chilled game or does it equally apply to normal unchilled go and its move order? Does the procedure only apply to the chilled game or does it equally apply to normal unchilled go?
The book uses chilling to find correct play in the unchilled game. Unless there are kos, correct play in the chilled game is also correct in the unchilled game.
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Re: Studying Microendgame and Infinitesimals

Post by Bill Spight »

Figure 2.12 and Theorem 5 restrict themselves to infinitesimals that are so simple that an odd number of them cannot add to 0. For instance, although you can construct ^* as a single game on the go board, not as the sum of ^ and *, such infinitesimals do not appear in Figure 2.12, and Theorem 5 is even more restrictive.
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— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

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