#266 kasai vs emeraldemon

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kasai
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#266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

I'm about 11k and emeraldemon's about 5k. We're doing Japanese rules and closed book. Have fun!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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emeraldemon
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

Hi, have a good game! Just so it's clear, the text in hide tags is for observers. You can't read it :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
my goal is to be patient and give black enough rope to hang himself. I expect the simple joseki here, which ends in gote for me.
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kasai
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

Roger that on hide tags!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I am extremely unused to playing handicap games in either direction, and I have a bit of a problem with overplaying, so my goal is to try to play more conservatively, especially since I'm starting with an advantage. So I'm just going to fall back and defend the sides here.
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emeraldemon
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
So can I tennuki? If I can get an approach on the upper left first it might give me some good synergy.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Now maybe 3 and 7 are working together
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . 7 . . O . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

If black doesn't want this, we might end up like so:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
But I think the double approach is sufficiently threatening that black will lose points going that way.
So I think the tennuki is safe.
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kasai
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

Sorry about the wait! I want to do one move a day but I was really busy yesterday.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
As expected, going for the top. I'm going to defend again, as the sides are bigger. I'm also usually a very aggressive player and I'd like to try to play a little more peacefully/defensively.
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

No problem.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
It's tempting to go for the symmetrical play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 5 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
But I feel like I like it less, it seems a little too thin.
Probably either is fine for six stone handicap, just I don't like it as much.
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

I just realized after I posted that I should have considered a tennuki to the bottom side as well. Oh well, it's probably fine.
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kasai
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Man, not being able to read the comments is KILLING me. Though I don't have to many comments at this stage, so my opponent might not either. Anyway, this is standard and also feels right. I don't mind letting my opponent have the top if I have the sides, but I actually have to keep the sides for that to work. :lol:
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . 7 . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Remember when Magicwand used to put empty hide tags to mess with his opponents? Good times.
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by Tryss »

emeraldemon wrote:
Remember when Magicwand used to put empty hide tags to mess with his opponents? Good times.
That's nasty ! I like that :twisted:

On a more serious note, what if Black play K4, would you be "happy" with the result?
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kasai
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
For now I'm pretty content to let him have the top while I take the sides. Extending here since I have less stones on this side right now. I could also try the bottom, but honestly I'd rather try to make solid sides. Especially because, while I can fight decently, I have a problem with too many weak groups. So I'd like to try to strengthen groups before getting into fights, or creating more groups. But also I think the sides are bigger than the bottom, especially if I have the basis to deny at least parts of the corner.

I'm expecting him to come into the bottom now, or the lower right side. If he goes on the side I'll extend along the bottom, if he goes on the bottom I'll just solidify my side.
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by Bill Spight »

:b8: is one of my top 10 guesses. :)
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
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emeraldemon
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I briefly considered continuing in top left. I will just play the biggest open space. Patience.
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kasai
Dies in gote
Posts: 28
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:12 am
Rank: KGS 9k
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KGS: kasai
OGS: aleta
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by kasai »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
As expected.
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emeraldemon
Gosei
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Re: #266 kasai vs emeraldemon

Post by emeraldemon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
I think it's worth continuing the joseki. It makes me a bit nervous to strengthen black's side even more, but what can I do? It's six stones, of course his position is strong. There will be time to attack later.
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