Before:
After:
In case the question isn't obvious, it's asking whether you think white is behaving like a bully or a donkey in descending to the second line.
PS.
Aside from the question asked (which to date 78 viewers evidently feel unable to answer anonymously!), the pictures reveal a couple of flaws in my mapping algorithms, which i will address in a future posting in Commonsense Go thread. Yes, i know you don't care... but i do!
bully or donkey?
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Uberdude
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Re: bully or donkey?
I'll answer as I wish to encourage you to post content about Go rather than going on about swim or wacky cultural reference youtube videos.
I don't know what style of move "donkey" characterises, but this white descent seems like a reasonable move to me: it has miai to connect to either side so takes away the eyespace of that black group, unsettling it. If it's unsettled white should be able to naturally prevent black making much in the centre left area. White would also like to win the lower left ko by playing at b6 rather than connecting (but loses a lot if then loses the ko), and unsettling the top group could make some suitably big threats. The other area that looks big to me is m3.
I don't know what style of move "donkey" characterises, but this white descent seems like a reasonable move to me: it has miai to connect to either side so takes away the eyespace of that black group, unsettling it. If it's unsettled white should be able to naturally prevent black making much in the centre left area. White would also like to win the lower left ko by playing at b6 rather than connecting (but loses a lot if then loses the ko), and unsettling the top group could make some suitably big threats. The other area that looks big to me is m3.
- djhbrown
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Re: bully or donkey?
The "donkey" is a stubborn player who never changes his plan, never changes his tune. When he looks in the mirror, the donkey does not see a donkey, but a supreme being. The confident donkey is quietly smug; the insecure one loudly overbearing, eager to shout out what he sees as fault in others.
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Re: bully or donkey?
Descent looks strong in the first position:
[*]It makes miai of connecting either side
[*]It is big territorially
[*]It offers future splitting/attacking possibilities
The second one also looks big - there is a bit more reading to do here. There are a few possible follow-ups. I've not counted, so I don't know which is best.
[*]It makes miai of connecting either side
[*]It is big territorially
[*]It offers future splitting/attacking possibilities
The second one also looks big - there is a bit more reading to do here. There are a few possible follow-ups. I've not counted, so I don't know which is best.
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Re: bully or donkey?
this one is the same kind of thing with a slightly different local shape. Were it played by an MCTS bot, we might say the bot was "On Tilt", making a last-ditch desperate lunge in a game that anyone with a sense of decency would have gracefully bowed out from long before.
perhaps black had been browbeaten into acquiescence by a fighting-spirit guru who told him to not resign until the bitter end, which came a couple of moves later when black ended up with the exact same shape as his misadventure in the lower left.
throughout the game, black demonstrated a cavalier attitude towards the safety of his own groups, single-mindedly going hell-for-leather after semeais here, there and everywhere.
a subspecies of the the bully-donkey genera, this black plays like a Twit, a dinosaur whose pathological hubris twitters away from out of a skull so thick and a skin so thin it needs a golden fur hat in summer as well as winter.
throughout the game, black demonstrated a cavalier attitude towards the safety of his own groups, single-mindedly going hell-for-leather after semeais here, there and everywhere.
a subspecies of the the bully-donkey genera, this black plays like a Twit, a dinosaur whose pathological hubris twitters away from out of a skull so thick and a skin so thin it needs a golden fur hat in summer as well as winter.
i shrink, therefore i swarm
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Re: bully or donkey?
Last edited by djhbrown on Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Uberdude
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Re: bully or donkey?
If you want to play better, I suggest you stop focusing on making emotive psychological evaluations of your opponents and concentrate on playing good moves yourself.
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Re: bully or donkey?
i'm not in Victor Mollo's class, but i appreciate his sense of humour. See if you can recognise yourself in his list:Uberdude wrote:I suggest you stop..]
To the Go menagerie, i would add Bully, Donkey and Twit (variations of Mollo's characters), plus:Wikipaedia - Victor Mollo wrote:The books describe entertaining events at a rubber bridge table in "The Griffins Club" (duplicate bridge features only occasionally), involving fictional characters, many of whom are nicknamed after the animals whom they most resemble both physically and psychologically, and who caricature common archetypes of real-life bridge players. Mollo often refers to the main characters by their initials. They include:
Hideous Hog (HH), by far the club's best player, but also an insufferable shark who seeks to humiliate opponents for their mistakes
Rueful Rabbit (RR), a small, timid man who can barely hold his cards together and can't always tell diamonds from hearts, but has such incredible luck that even the cards he accidentally drops (several at once, occasionally) become the right ones
Secretary Bird, who knows the laws of the game perfectly and insists that they are applied to the letter, always to his own downfall
Papa the Greek, a clever but exceedingly vain expert, who fancies himself as the Hog's superior despite regularly losing to him, and whose cleverness usually backfires against himself
Karapet, an Armenian expatriate and a fine player, but the unluckiest one ever, usually Papa's partner
Colin the Corgi, among the club's younger members, a strong player who is often sarcastic and testy and thus has "all the makings of a future master"
Oscar the Owl, Senior Kibitzer at the Griffins, whose role is usually limited to acting as an audience for HH's exploits
Peregrine the Penguin, Oscar's equivalent at the Unicorns, the Griffins' rival club
Walter the Walrus, whose expertise in and devotion to the Work point count are matched only by the utter mess he makes of bidding and play
Molly the Mule, the lone recurring female character, who is always certain that she is right and is as stubborn as the proverbial mule
Timothy the Toucan, as hopeless a player as RR but without RR's engaging qualities. TT tries to make up for his shortcomings by means of an oozing deference to the Menagerie's better players.
Charlie the Chimp would rather post mortem the last hand than play the next. He is an exponent of sharp practice at the table, once famously producing a remarkable (and impossible under normal bridge circumstances) quadruple squeeze against himself by retaining a small card to conceal his own revoke.
Eddie the Eagle, a late starter with thus no prospect of climbing high, but with a heart as big as an ox, stubbornly refusing to admit defeat.
Alef is confined to quarters, but an army of sycophants have created miniclone dolls of She Who Must Be Obeyed, some of which are so regular and so adept at separating people from their dreams of glory that they could be standard-bearers for All-Bran.
And then there's Swim. But she is is so non-U* that she was abandoned by her mother at birth, whereupon the Secretary of The Unicorn Club Committee closed the heavily guard-dog guarded doors of their club to her, so she was put in a basket and dumped in the bullrushes of a Euphrates swamp along with another imaginary upstart. * almost as non-U as Kate Raworth:etymonline wrote:Old English scitan, from Proto-Germanic *skit-, from PIE root *skei- "to cut, split." The notion is of "separation" from the body (compare Latin excernere "to separate," Old English scearn from scieran "to cut, shear;" see sharn). It is thus a cousin to science and conscience.