Shapes

[Glummie]

How do you make good shapes or know how to do it?

[EdLee]

Hi Glummie,

Some sample discussions: MakingGoodShape

You can also have your games reviewed
( the quality of the review matters ).

Top human games have many examples of efficient shapes.

( AlphaZero games have shapes that are beyond top human understanding. )

[Glummie]

Hi Glummie,

Some sample discussions: MakingGoodShape

You can also have your games reviewed
( the quality of the review matters ).

Top human games have many examples of efficient shapes.

( AlphaZero games have shapes that are beyond top human understanding. )

Hi, thanks for the prompt response. Is that book the best for shapes study?

[Hrabanus]

Hey Glummie,

i don't know which book is the best on that topic, but here is another one: ShapeUp (Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0)

You can use this article as an entry point, too: Shape

This video by dsaun gets recommended often

[Bonobo]

“Shape Up” by revered L19 member Charles Matthews is a good suggestion indeed, but I’d recommend to use this (AFAIK latest) edition: http://cdn.online-go.com/shape_up.pdf

[Glummie]

Thanks for the suggestions!

[Uberdude]

For beginner intro to shape I recommend these 2:
- https://senseis.xmp.net/?LameDuGo
- https://senseis.xmp.net/?HaengMaTutorialForBeginners

(Shape Up is good but probably too hard for a 25k).

[Bill Spight]

Here are some threads about shape.

forum/viewtopic.php?t=8136

viewtopic.php?t=13527

viewtopic.php?t=11896

I highly recommend the first one. It was started by a beginner who was very good at hosting interesting and instructive discussions.

[Joaz Banbeck]

I like https://senseis.xmp.net/?GoodShape, particularly the last paragraph.

[paK0]

For beginner intro to shape I recommend these 2:
- https://senseis.xmp.net/?LameDuGo
- https://senseis.xmp.net/?HaengMaTutorialForBeginners

(Shape Up is good but probably too hard for a 25k).

Was Fan Hui's book ever translated or is it just this one chapter?

[Uberdude]

I'm not aware of the whole book being translated to English.

[Bill Spight]

This may be a bit advanced for this thread, but I have a comment about Fan Hui's example, the so-called ripped tobi. Here is the diagram for it from Sensei's Library.

$$c A ripped tobi
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$c A ripped tobi
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]

The problem, as I see it, is that it is on the third line. Presumably Black will play , else if White plays there the Black shape is really, really, really bad.

$$Wc Joseki
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . 5 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$Wc Joseki
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . 5 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . , . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]

makes a ripped tobi. Bad shape, eh? Not at all, because it is on the third line. That means that whichever way White cuts, Black can capture the cutting stone.

I sympathize. It is not easy to construct good, specific examples of general concepts.

[Glummie]

Here are some threads about shape.

https://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8136

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=13527

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=11896

I highly recommend the first one. It was started by a beginner who was very good at hosting interesting and instructive discussions.

Thanks buddy!