It is currently Thu Oct 31, 2024 4:08 pm

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #1 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:16 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
A new tournament to be held in Fuzhou, China.

Official Chinese name: “吴清源杯”世界女子围棋赛
English name: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Go Championship (this is the literal translation, official name unknown so far)

Dates: 26th April - 2nd May 2018

Format: 28 players (7 Chinese mainland, 4 Korean, 4 Japanese, 2 Chinese Taipei, 8 European and North American, and 3 wildcards)

Players known so far:

Korea: Choi Jeong, Oh Yujin, Oh Jeonga (appointed), and Kim Cheayoung (winner of a preliminary tournament)

Japan: Fujisawa Rina, Xie Yimin, Nyu Eiko, Ueno Asami (top 4 Japanese according to their 2017 prize money)
Chinese Taipei: Hei Jiajia (top ranked), Yang Zixuan (winner of a preliminary tournament)

Prize:

prize pool: 1,200,000 CNY. Winner prize: 500,000 CNY; runner-up prize: 200,000 CNY

side event: an international AI's tournament

confirmed AI players: Tianrang, CGI, Deepzengo, Dolbaram

Also there is a game between Ke Jie and a mysterious AI program


This post by macelee was liked by 2 people: Elom, sorin
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #2 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:24 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
My personal comments:

* This is what a proper 'world championship' looks like.
* Prize is higher than any current international women's tournament
* The Chinese appears to be very serious promoting Go by giving eight seats to western players, although I guess there may be some preliminary rounds among these players, otherwise why 28 players in total? We will see.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #3 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:41 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1515
Liked others: 111
Was liked: 317
It looks like a nice event, although I am a bit surprised to see 8 'Western' entries there. I'm curious as to how they will go from 28 to 2!? You'd imagine a 12 + 4 from 8:8

There are two basic formats for a World Championship.
1 The best player from every country is invited to compete on an equal footing.
2 The best players in the world compete
I think that #1 is nice for Amateur Competition, and that #2 is best for professional. I'm not a super fan of the mixture, but look forward to it all the same.

_________________
North Lecale

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #4 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:05 am 
Oza

Posts: 3698
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4660
Quote:
* This is what a proper 'world championship' looks like.
* Prize is higher than any current international women's tournament


I agree that this is a much more satisfactory tournament for the women of the world (the Chinese do get more places than anyone else, but I approve of that).

But are you sure about the prize? The Nihon Ki-in list the Senko winner's prize (優勝賞金) as 10 million yen, which I think is about 20% higher than the GSG Cup. Of course the total fund for the GSG must be considerably higher, and maybe that's what you meant.

I think it is also worth recording that the Chinese have been extraordinarily generous in providing games for the western professionals in general. With that in mind, I'd be a little disappointed if the GSG places for European and North American players went to Chinese players simply resident there.

We have a story on the BBC today, as part of a much wider debate about equal pay for women, in which John McEnroe is said to be paid ten times more than Martina Navratilova as a TV commentator (the BBC already has omelette on face about their women's pay). Even the Senko Cup comes in at under a third of, say, the Meijin (technically open but for men in practice). However, the Meijin prize was drastically reduced a couple of years ago. I assumed that that economic stringency, but now I wonder whether it may also be a way of releasing more funds to boost the women's prizes.


This post by John Fairbairn was liked by: thirdfogie
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #5 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:24 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
John Fairbairn wrote:
But are you sure about the prize? The Nihon Ki-in list the Senko winner's prize (優勝賞金) as 10 million yen, which I think is about 20% higher than the GSG Cup. Of course the total fund for the GSG must be considerably higher, and maybe that's what you meant.


Yes you are right about the winner's prize: 10,000,000 JPY is about 20% more than 500,000 CNY. The original source is not very clear about this point. It might refer to the total pool of money or maybe the budget of the tournament. The winner's prize only account for 5/12 of the total. As mentioned in a recent post, such a balanced arrangement is not unusual in the Chinese system.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #6 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:21 pm 
Lives in sente

Posts: 827
Location: UK
Liked others: 568
Was liked: 84
Rank: OGS 9kyu
Universal go server handle: WindnWater, Elom
I do feel bad for any professionals without places, and maybe I'm selfish here, but I can't complain about 8 EU/NA places if it's true (although I suspect something closer to the Samsung Cup).

_________________
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #7 Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:36 pm 
Lives with ko

Posts: 149
Liked others: 276
Was liked: 49
Rank: 3d
KGS: 3d
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
This event happens within 2 km from my home ... It's a pity that I'm not there at the time.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #8 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:02 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 284
Liked others: 94
Was liked: 153
Rank: OGS 7 kyu
gamesorry wrote:
This event happens within 2 km from my home ... It's a pity that I'm not there at the time.

You live in Fujian/Fuzhou? I was working there from 2009 to 2015 :)

_________________
I am the author of GoReviewPartner, a small software aimed at assisting reviewing a game of Go. Give it a try!


This post by pnprog was liked by: gamesorry
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #9 Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:12 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 149
Liked others: 276
Was liked: 49
Rank: 3d
KGS: 3d
DGS: 3d
OGS: 3d
pnprog wrote:
gamesorry wrote:
This event happens within 2 km from my home ... It's a pity that I'm not there at the time.

You live in Fujian/Fuzhou? I was working there from 2009 to 2015 :)


I grew up there, and now I’m working in some other place, but my home is still there :-)

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #10 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:46 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 284
Liked others: 94
Was liked: 153
Rank: OGS 7 kyu
gamesorry wrote:
pnprog wrote:
gamesorry wrote:
This event happens within 2 km from my home ... It's a pity that I'm not there at the time.

You live in Fujian/Fuzhou? I was working there from 2009 to 2015 :)


I grew up there, and now I’m working in some other place, but my home is still there :-)
Nice!

As for me, this is place I learned Go, I used to attend lessons in a Go school (normally for children, but we were a very small group of adults taking lessons as well). Well, I did not improved that much in Go, but I certainly improved in Chinese while attending the lessons :mrgreen:

Also, there is that museum located at that house were Go Seigen that opened in 2012 (WuShanKou, at south of NanHouJie) and that Starbuck with decoration related to Go just next to that museum, I played a bunch of games there, that was good time.

I could not find such a Go friendly environment after I moved out of FuZhou, but there is a possibility that I move back there again for work in the future.

_________________
I am the author of GoReviewPartner, a small software aimed at assisting reviewing a game of Go. Give it a try!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #11 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:48 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 284
Liked others: 94
Was liked: 153
Rank: OGS 7 kyu
macelee wrote:
Also there is a game between Ke Jie and a mysterious AI program
I am really curious about that one. Could it be LeelaZero :o

_________________
I am the author of GoReviewPartner, a small software aimed at assisting reviewing a game of Go. Give it a try!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #12 Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:07 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
pnprog wrote:
macelee wrote:
Also there is a game between Ke Jie and a mysterious AI program
I am really curious about that one. Could it be LeelaZero :o


No, we'll soon learn the retirement of a strong AI program and the release of its next generation, probably with a different name.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #13 Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:16 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
There's a press release. This mysterious AI program is said to have its own creative algorithm. No detail is given at this time, however the program "does not use the core deep learning techniques as published in the 2nd AlphaGo paper".

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #14 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:37 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
The new AI program has been named as 星阵围棋, ('星阵' literally meaning 'an array of stars'). But there is a formal English name called Golaxy. It is related to the AI program Abacus, but new (none machine learning) techniques are said to be used.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #15 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 4:33 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
macelee wrote:
The new AI program has been named as 星阵围棋, ('星阵' literally meaning 'an array of stars'). But there is a formal English name called Golaxy. It is related to the AI program Abacus, but new (none machine learning) techniques are said to be used.

Perhaps djhbrown's SWIM finally got implemented?! ;-)


This post by Uberdude was liked by 3 people: Bill Spight, pnprog, thirdfogie
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #16 Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 3:55 pm 
Lives in gote

Posts: 388
Liked others: 417
Was liked: 198
macelee wrote:
The new AI program has been named as 星阵围棋, ('星阵' literally meaning 'an array of stars'). But there is a formal English name called Golaxy. It is related to the AI program Abacus, but new (none machine learning) techniques are said to be used.


The "new (none machine learning)" part sounds intriguing and contradictory, I wonder if there is a typo or some inaccurate translation somewhere?

If it is using some new AI-like techniques, it would still fall in the "machine learning" category. Maybe: "new machine learning techniques"?

If it is using some old, rule-based techniques - then I don't think "new" is accurate...

_________________
Sorin - 361points.com

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #17 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:52 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
Maybe Go Seigen's brain in a vat? Or is that actually DeepMind's secret?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #18 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:34 am 
Oza

Posts: 3698
Liked others: 20
Was liked: 4660
Could the new techniques be to do with hardware, not software?

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #19 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:47 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 923
Location: UK
Liked others: 72
Was liked: 479
Rank: 5 dan
KGS: macelee
John Fairbairn wrote:
Could the new techniques be to do with hardware, not software?


Having read several reports I still don't know what exactly the new techniques are. But one thing I learn is that the developers are exploring ways to use only a small amount of computing resources (relative to AlphaGo) to achieve high level playing. So this does not sound like a hardware solution.


This post by macelee was liked by: pnprog
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Go Seigen Cup World Women's Championship
Post #20 Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:38 am 
Judan

Posts: 6725
Location: Cambridge, UK
Liked others: 436
Was liked: 3719
Rank: UK 4 dan
KGS: Uberdude 4d
OGS: Uberdude 7d
The game 1st golaxy vs Leela Zero game will start in less than an hour, with English commentary by Zhao Baolong 2p here: http://portal.yikeweiqi.com/online/goli ... il?id=8326. From https://www.reddit.com/r/cbaduk/comment ... be_played/ Golaxy will use 10x1080Ti GPUs and LZ 4*Titan V (apparently these are about the same power). Also Golaxy has 19 blocks, so is neural-network based, just probably not a Zero-style.


This post by Uberdude was liked by 2 people: Elom, pnprog
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 57 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group