The Story of a Loser - The Great Pitfall of Studying Go!

dfan · Post by **dfan** » Wed May 30, 2018 8:15 am

Congrats on a successful month! One thing to be aware of: A Survey of the Basic Tesujis is actually fairly advanced (I read "basic" as "basic to a 1d"). Many problems in there are ones that I wouldn't expect to solve over the board at my (strong kyu) level. Of course there is no harm in reading through it and getting some inspiration, just don't be too disappointed if it's tougher than you expected. I do like that it is organized by the local shape of the important move (e.g., wedge, attachment, cut) rather than by the goal of the sequence; it's a refreshing change and is good at providing ideas for local moves.

Don't worry about your age; at 25, you are a kid.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:52 am

dfan wrote:Congrats on a successful month! One thing to be aware of: A Survey of the Basic Tesujis is actually fairly advanced (I read "basic" as "basic to a 1d"). Many problems in there are ones that I wouldn't expect to solve over the board at my (strong kyu) level. Of course there is no harm in reading through it and getting some inspiration, just don't be too disappointed if it's tougher than you expected. I do like that it is organized by the local shape of the important move (e.g., wedge, attachment, cut) rather than by the goal of the sequence; it's a refreshing change and is good at providing ideas for local moves.

Don't worry about your age; at 25, you are a kid.

Thanks for the warning. The thing I like most about the book is also the fact that the tesuji are categorised by their technical move.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:09 pm

So I managed to finish Jump Level Up 1.
First time I had some tougher times, though. I think during the book I got about 90% of the answers right, but the test (under tougher circumstances, though) was not as good with about 75%-80% right.

Still, I think it's good enough to move on to Jump Level 2. But I'll probably slow down my pace. I wanted to get as fast as I could through these books but I think I'm at a point now where I'm pretty much on the level I'm at, so I don't want to rush it and perhaps miss the point.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:26 pm

Ian Butler wrote:So I managed to finish Jump Level Up 1.
First time I had some tougher times, though. I think during the book I got about 90% of the answers right, but the test (under tougher circumstances, though) was not as good with about 75%-80% right.

Still, I think it's good enough to move on to Jump Level 2. But I'll probably slow down my pace. I wanted to get as fast as I could through these books but I think I'm at a point now where I'm pretty much on the level I'm at, so I don't want to rush it and perhaps miss the point.

I definitely agree that it's time to move on.

However, after a decent interval, like one month, take the test(s) over until you get them at least 95% correct.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:40 am

Bill Spight wrote:
Ian Butler wrote:So I managed to finish Jump Level Up 1.
First time I had some tougher times, though. I think during the book I got about 90% of the answers right, but the test (under tougher circumstances, though) was not as good with about 75%-80% right.

Still, I think it's good enough to move on to Jump Level 2. But I'll probably slow down my pace. I wanted to get as fast as I could through these books but I think I'm at a point now where I'm pretty much on the level I'm at, so I don't want to rush it and perhaps miss the point.

I definitely agree that it's time to move on. However, after a decent interval, like one month, take the test(s) over until you get them at least 95% correct.

Interesting idea.
I'll get started on Jump Level Up 2 and try to do 1 or 2 lessons a day. Maybe once I'm halfway the book, I'll re-try the Jump Level Up 1 test to see how I do.
Also because at the time I did the test yesterday, I had already done tsumego/problems for like 1 hour and a half, so my concentration was nearing its very end. Maybe if I re-do it in a few weeks, with a better concentration, it'll go better.

That said, I should be careful of these things. Because I have a good memory and I'll probably still remember some of the problems even after months. So next time I do a "test", I'll have to take care to do it properly in the first time :study:

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:03 am

Ian Butler wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:I definitely agree that it's time to move on. However, after a decent interval, like one month, take the test(s) over until you get them at least 95% correct.

Interesting idea.
I'll get started on Jump Level Up 2 and try to do 1 or 2 lessons a day. Maybe once I'm halfway the book, I'll re-try the Jump Level Up 1 test to see how I do.

Overlearning is very important.

Since you have a lot of other similar problems available, a goal of 95% strikes me as reasonable. Otherwise, I would recommend 100%.

The 50% rule of thumb for the level of problems to work on may seem to conflict with overlearning, but they actually go together. The 50% rule sets a good challenge for acquiring new skills. The overlearning goal is for reinforcing newly acquired skills and for mastery. A lot of people do easy problems quickly. This is a form of overlearning, but IMX it is the overlearning that is the key, not speed training. One of my bridge partners told me that among all her partners I was the quickest at figuring things out at the table. Speed is important at bridge, because your opponents can draw inferences from how long you take to bid or play. Even so, I never trained for speed, I trained for mastery. As for the 50% rule, I think that players who only do problems that are easy for them are not stretching themselves enough and end up selling themselves short.

I should be careful of these things. Because I have a good memory and I'll probably still remember some of the problems even after months.

I had the same problem, and because I thought that it was better to work things out rather than simply remembering them, I waited a long time before reviewing problems. In those days I did not have the plethora of problems that people have available today, and that meant that I spent a long time between doing problems. In retrospect I think I would have done better to review more frequently and to forge ahead.

Edit: The idea of turning the book over when you review is a good one.

spook · Post by **spook** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:29 pm

Hello Jonas - if that is your real name :batman:

,

First of all, thank you for our game on Tuesday, I really enjoyed it.
I wanted to review it. Unfortunately, I forgot too much of it already.
And I am stuck here (the order of moves is already incorrect I assume).
Perhaps you remember how it went exactly ? :-?

( btw: my gmail e-mail address: bvandenbon )

My opinion about reaching 1-dan amateur level:

I have a twitter account where I occasionally post some things about Go. And shortly after our game, I decided to post the following: https://twitter.com/gogobrugo/status/1002439000160907264 :study:

That's a text from the book "The Endgame" of the "Elementary Go Series". I am not a big fan of English Go books, especially not the ones with a lot of text. But this book is great because it's so efficient. It takes years to master, so you better don't waste time

. It makes you realize that even a simple hane can have a value of >15 points. Which in turn, makes you realize that many games are decided in endgame. And that makes it a critical skill to master. :rambo:

There are more skills like this. Ask around, and you will notice that these skills seperate the dan players from the kyu players: :mrgreen:

Tewari

1-2-3 rule

how to count territory during the game

SWOT

calculating the value of end-game moves

L-shapes / J-shapes / ...

It is not easy to reach 1-dan level. I think that those who do claim that it is easy, should count how many hours they already spent studying and playing the game. In fact, these topics can be exhausing. It takes perseverance for sure. ;-)

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:09 pm

calculating the value of end-game moves

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:25 am

@Bill

I had the same problem, and because I thought that it was better to work things out rather than simply remembering them, I waited a long time before reviewing problems. In those days I did not have the plethora of problems that people have available today, and that meant that I spent a long time between doing problems. In retrospect I think I would have done better to review more frequently and to forge ahead.

Edit: The idea of turning the book over when you review is a good one.

I'll remember that, thanks.
Yes, I'm doing GGPB 2 upside down at the moment. TO get "new" problems and also not to have the text helping me. Ironically, I've gotten much better at reading upside down lately :lol:

@Spook
Thanks, Bram! I really enjoyed the game, too. I'll definitely try to come more often and perhaps we can play more games. I also have a game record that I made that very night, I just put it next to yours and I think this is a pretty good guess of how the game went (up to move 73) Not sure about the last few moves. I know I made them but timing could be off.

Though one thing I really remember differently is move 59. Are you sure I played this? I remember saying that you could make an eye there for sure, and then find another one in the center. The way it looks now, white is not making an eye at the bottom there... Maybe I'm mistaken, though.

Thanks for the links, I'll definitely go through them. I've read 'The Endgame' but found it rather hard, same for Get Strong at the Endgame. I put it aside again and will pick it up later, when I'll get more out of it, hopefully.

I don't think reaching 1 dan is easy at all, obviously. While it may be a faraway goal for me, it'll only be reached by keeping up the hard work. But as long as the motivation is there, I think I can make it!

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:13 am

A slower week, which has put a stop to playing games for a few days. But I worry not. I am doing my daily tsumego + 1 chapter in Jump Level Up + 1 chapter in Basic Tesuji.
Hope to get back into fighting shape over the weekend with another game with my fighting account!

However, I have been replaying and watching commentated games from Dosaku. And, yes, I have fallen in love with the beauty of his moves and his insight in the game. Even hundreds of years after he placed his stone, you can feel its power radiate. Simply wonderful and an additional motiation to get better. The more I could start to understand his moves even slightly, the happier I'll be!

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:41 pm

I was trying to determine whether my ego is my biggest obstacle in becoming a better go player, or my biggest asset. Instinctively I'd say the former.

As much as I try not to, ego creeps into my go playing. Often in losing a game, the ego is hurt and puts me down a bit. This hurts my development and even worse, it hurts my enjoyement of Go. Because what wonderful moves my opponent sometimes plays to outsmart me. I should revel in its present, not dread it for fear of losing.

Yet it is also my ego that tells me it'd be great to become stronger. My ego tells me to become 5 kyu, 1 dan, even higher.
Perhaps without my ego, though, the beauty of the game would propel me forward inevitably, without the pressure of rank.

It is certainly something to think about, a praiseworthy goal to work towards, but a lifetime objective to complete, if ever, in all probability. And, in fact, the more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes. It is much like Go itself. The rules are so simple, complexity comes from the freedom within these simple rules. That is how life is, I think. The "rules" to life are so easy, so it allows for infinite complexity.

Things would definitely be a lot easier without that ego looking over my shoulder. Even without the aspect of Go, I should try to rid myself of it.
So why not start today?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:01 pm

You are your own opponent.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:13 pm

Corollary to Bill's:

We're our biggest opponent. ( ccs )

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:28 pm

Pogo Possum wrote:We have met the enemy and he is us.

Ian Butler · Post by **Ian Butler** » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:05 pm

I played this game earlier today. It was rather blitz-y, so of course there are some silly mistakes to be found.
Especially a snapback I didn't forsee, a ko I basically passed up on and three captured stones I almost let go (but this time the opponent made the ko-blunder). But the game was, more than anything else, a whole load of fun.
June is my month to learn how to fight and this is the kind of fighting I've never done before. Groups spanning half the board fighting for life, cutting off each other, from dead to alive.

This game really gave me a thrill, so I wanted to share it here!

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