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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #301 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:56 pm 
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i dont know what he is waiting for.
he has to play ko. it will be a ko fight to the death.
i already know the optimal result for the ko fight.
white should win the ko fight..but it might not be easy reading everything.

i will go home for now..and will be super busy tomorrow...
i dont think i can move till WED.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #302 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:58 pm 
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another black hidden to rattle his mind...


my prediction:

blank hidden

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #303 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:44 pm 
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Thanks Magicwand, but someone already answered my question (which is now moot anyway)

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #304 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Sorry, this is a bit of a big decision to make, and I don't have the time to make it. My boss is going to be here for a week and a half, and during that time, I'll be away from my comp, I won't be able to post unless my weekend frees up.

So in worst case, the next move will come two Mondays from now.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #305 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:32 pm 
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Well, someone is planning to read out the entire game to the end and make an exact count.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #306 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:33 am 
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I could post from my phone, but I haven't read this enough yet. Sorry for the delay.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #307 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:16 pm 
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I wonder what he'll play...

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #308 Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:01 pm 
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Thanks for waiting, Magicwand. It was a hectic week and a half.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . W O . |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



After a lot of thought, I think I am still comfortable without fighting this ko. It takes too much risk, and I think I can still win without it.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #309 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:45 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . B . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

unexpected move by my opponent. can he win without ko???

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Offline zinger
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #310 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:49 am 
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I figure black leads by about 9 points on the board. Is there komi? How much?

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #311 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:51 am 
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zinger wrote:
I figure black leads by about 9 points on the board. Is there komi? How much?

Violence wrote:
Japanese Rules, 6.5 komi

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #312 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:17 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O W . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #313 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:31 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . W X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O C . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is it just me, or is it a bit better for white to capture in sente, first? It threatens to kill those black stones, so it seems to gain something for nothing? Or is that a ko threat?

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #314 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:06 am 
Honinbo

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Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . W X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O C . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is it just me, or is it a bit better for white to capture in sente, first? It threatens to kill those black stones, so it seems to gain something for nothing? Or is that a ko threat?


I like yours a bit better. You can consider if Q18 as a response gives black any benefit, but then white R19 is forcing.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #315 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:09 am 
Tengen
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . . . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . B O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
this hanne feels so~~~ good.
he has two ways to answer. i marked two. i dont know which is correct way to answer. i am thinking p12
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . c . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . e X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . C X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . C . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . B O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O d O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X b . O X O O a |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i marked few point of intrest. they all have merits. i will pick one after he answer my move.
but as of now...b looks big. but it is a gote. but he didnt gain any points since i counted and i did gain enough to win. so i think i will most likely take 'b' to put the final nail on a coffen.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #316 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 4:09 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . W . O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think sente is too important in this game... I have to keep sente, and this is the move to let me do it. If I were to connect and atari one stone, I think that he would just take tenuki.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #317 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:23 am 
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . 1 X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . W 2 O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

after careful review 'a' is gote so it is not big.
i will rather take his sente away from him (this will demoralize him) and give some support to my group in the middle and make sure he doesnt have two eye so i can force him to take my stones at the end plus many other intresting ajis.
also 'b' is very big because it will open up invasion on 'c' plus many more intresting ajis.
i believe i am winning by slim margin but it is still too early to tell.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O c . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . b X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . 1 X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . W 2 O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . a . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #318 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:20 am 
Gosei
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KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . c X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . b 1 X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . W 2 O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . a X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . x |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 3 seems very gote, which is the opposite of what MW said? I don't see why white would play at x, now that there are only two points in gote there? a-c all seem bigger to me.

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Offline amnal
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #319 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:47 am 
Lives in gote

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Chew Terr wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . c X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . b 1 X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . W 2 O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . a X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O . . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . x |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but 3 seems very gote, which is the opposite of what MW said? I don't see why white would play at x, now that there are only two points in gote there? a-c all seem bigger to me.


I think it has some merit also in that it changes how white can handle a (as black can connect underneath now, so doesn't have to worry about this if white ataris to capture.

It's also reverse sente, of course, and removes some aji from the area.

Whether this is enough to make it the best move...I'm still not sure. It's subtle, if so.
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Offline Harleqin
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #320 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:12 am 
Lives in sente
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This is very kyuish mistake by Black, motivated by "sente envy". There would have been a much bigger reverse sente on the left side, for example.

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