Greetings from Chaosrider! And a plea for help...

[Chaosrider2808]

I've been an AGA member off and on for the last 30 years or so, and on this board sometimes as well. I just rejoined AGA!

I want some Go training software...for ME! Igowin says I'm about 11 kyu, which is consistent with my memory. I used to have the Bruce Wilcox Dojo, and I may still have it on a different computer. I want to download it onto my current computer (I'm happy to pay for the copy), but I can't find a way to DO that! Lots of references to it, but no "Download Here" button that I can find.

The BW Dojo was wonderful; I just didn't have the patience to work through it thoroughly. Now, older and wiser and slower, it would be even more valuable to me now, than it was then.

At 11 kyu, I don't need a 5 dan computer engine. I'm much more interested in a clean interface with good graphics, than I am in a powerful skill level from the machine. As I get better, I may need a program that's better, but not to get re-started.

Any suggestions or pointers from the assembled wisdom here would be very greatly appreciated!

Thanks for keeping Go alive in my absence!



TCS

[EdLee]

Hi Chaosrider,

You can try to contact Bruce via KGS.

At 11 kyu, I don't need a 5 dan computer engine.

Actually, the new engines are super human level now, and even beginners can benefit from their analyses. Good stuff.

Good luck.

[Chaosrider2808]

Fair enough! I would certainly be happy to have a smarter program, but if there's a cost trade-off to be made, an intuitive UI with clean graphics is more important to me. If I can get both cheap, so much the better!

I downloaded the free demo version of The Many Faces of Go, which might work fine...but I have some UI problems. The font for the verbal commentary displays on my screen in microscopic type, far too small to be usable. There may be an easy setting to fix that, but the menu structure is completely opaque to me, for some reason.

I need some basic-basic stuff, such as the "Contact Fights" section of the old Bruce Wilcox Dojo.It's POSSIBLE that I have that SW on some ancient back-up that I have, so I'll check that out today.

Thanks for your response! I need to find the right program to accelerate my Go studies.



TCS

[jlt]

It is not clear from your post if you only need software for your computer, or if apps for smarphones would be of interest for you, but here is a list of apps that you might find useful:

• Tsumego Pro. A few problems are free, and you can buy cheap sets of 200 or 300 extra problems.
• BW-joseki. Free. Can be useful to check after your games if you got tricked in a joseki.
• Goro Tesuji. Free. Many problems focus on making good shape. The only drawback of this program is that it considers only one variation as correct.

[Chaosrider2808]

jlt:

Thanks for those pointers! The BW Joseki one will probably be most useful to me at my current stage of development. However, since I was able to find and run my copy of the BW Dojo, I've been alternating between reading that, and duking it out with Igowin. I've probably played 20 games since I posted yesterday (no, I don't have a life..need a couple of eyes...). I'm now solidly up to 9 kyu. Yesterday, for a brief shining moment, IGW ranked me at 6 kyu, which was my signal to be done with Go for the day!

I had forgotten how much I love BWs writing style; clear and elegant, with a delightful tinge of smartass. When I first read through the BW Dojo many years ago, I was handicapped by the fact that I already knew, in a crude sense, how to play Go. The first time, it was more scanning than reading, looking for "tips and techniques". Now, I'm wise enough to know the depth of my ignorance, and I'm moving slowly but steadily through the BW Dojo, and when I'm done, I'll be a much better player than I am now.

Now, what I need is a Go playing and teaching program combined, one that gently, and regularly but not incessantly, points out during a game that I'm playing with it, that I just made a dumb move, it will tell me why, and give me the chance to take it back, and try again.

Is there such a program?

Of course, I've been told that humans can do that...



TCS

[jlt]

I don't know if such a teaching program exists, but I would doubt so. A move is good for you if you understand it, i.e. you can read the followup. A good teacher should suggest, not necessarily the move that he would play, but the best move that you are likely to understand. Even though bots can now play at superhuman level, they still don't know how 10k humans think.

[Chaosrider2808]

Your general commentary makes good sense, but I wold be surprised if no such training program exists. The BWD is actually quite close to that. For example, he had one demo game for teaching (mostly) contact rules, where clicking on various possible moves on the board produces commentary about the right moves. Many possible right moves.

From a learning theory standpoint, infinite fuzziness is not optimal. BW is clear repeatedly about the limitations of his semi-absolute statements...and then goes on to make many more of them. That's very helpful.

From an IT standpoint (I was CIO for the State of Nevada for seven years, for the credentialists among us!), the extension from what BW did decades ago, to what I'm describing, is not that huge.

If it doesn't exist, someone will eventually do it, because it's such a good idea!



TCS