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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #21 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:40 pm 
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Move 27 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Pretty much exactly as I expected.

White's move in the top corner is a doubly good move: it agrees with the direction of influence on the left edge to build a moyo there. It also prevents me from playing a ladder breaker for the O3 stone as an approach against the corner (assuming there isn't a local net that would work there instead. But the issue is moot now).

There aren't any urgent moves at present (well, Q8 is a tad lonely, but it's not in immediate danger), so I go looking for some big points.


Tactics and Variations
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27 Move 27 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . c . . . d . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . g . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . f . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


'a' is interesting. It forces white to build a wall, probably facing the left side to build up a moyo, but it also gives me 4th line territory along the top. If white blocked the other direction white gets pressed into a low position and I build strong influence facing the top side. That said, it does start in contact with white, which usually isn't proper.

'b' is a bit more kosher than 'a', but it's too easy for white to press me in to a low position and build good influence facing the left side.

'c' is a big point, in the middle of the neutral side. But I end up with a double wing formation around a corner that is still invadable, so next white would likely invade at the 3-3 in sente.

'd' is a balanced extension from the 4-4 stone, aiming at the double wing extension next, or to totally grab the corner with a move at R15.

'e' is an extension from the 4-4 stone that seeks to back up the Q8 stone, but it's too redundant to be a good extension and still leaves weaknesses in the position. One line higher might work but then the formation isn't balanced between high and low.

'f' tries to form a large scale moyo but it's premature at this point without the double wing in place. It does function as a ladder breaker against my O3 stone, though. (Again, assuming there isn't a local capture. I'd need to read it out and I haven't).

'g' tries to provide some backup for the wide extension of this side. But it feels like the wrong direction.

...

'a' and 'd' are what I consider to be the largest points on the board. There's probably a joseki that would work well instead of 'a' to similar effect, but if I don't know my 3-4 stone joseki I certainly don't know my 3-5 stone joseki.

In the end, 'd' feels a bit more normal of a move, so I'm going with that. It's probably not the best move, but it's certainly a good move and well within my comfort zone. If white then makes an enclosure on the top left at D17 I can play the big point of 'c' and it has double value since it works to form a double wing formation and prevents a white extension along the top, which would have become the ideal direction from the left corner.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #22 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:53 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm28 Move 28 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Time to attack. Nums has only given me one real target so that is what I will attack. My groups feel solid, I fear nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #23 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:06 am 
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KGS: Numsgil
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[go]$$Bcm29 Move 29 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Strategy and Thoughts
He invades!

I could run out now, aiming to counterattack, but it's only one stone in danger, and it's a pretty loose white attack anyway (two spaces on either side). And white's moyo is far from complete, so I have time to try other invasions later myself if white securely grabs the Q8 stone. Like K4.

So instead, I take the other big point I was eying last time. To be kosher with contact fight rules white should push me in one direction or the other, but either way looks good to me. Pretty much any other move (like 3-3) allows me to push him into a low position along the left side and greatly limit his potential growth there.

With any luck I'll be able to reduce like this in sente and then I can go back and figure out what to do about my lone pincered stone.


Tactics and Variations
This is what I expect (with multiple possible moves for 7 I need to consider). 1-6 is probably not a joseki, but I think it's an acceptable result for either side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 5 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 . 1 3 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #24 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:18 am 
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Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
:shock: :shock: :shock:

There are no words for the feeling this move gives me.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #25 Posted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:35 am 
Gosei
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Redundant wrote:
:shock: :shock: :shock:

There are no words for the feeling this move gives me.


As long as it wasn't a good feeling I think you'll be OK.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #26 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:05 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm30 Move 30 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


grr. that ladder stone is very annoying I was tempted to just tenuki to capture it but feel this will be a bit better. I hate giving him free territory up here especially with a 40pt reverse komi. I am going to go for lots of thickness and try for a moyo game and kill anything that comes in too deep. His approach was strong.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #27 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:19 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm31 Move 31 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 1 . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
This is forced, but all according to plan. I'm curious to see if white can come up with something better than my other diagram. He might just leave this and go after my lone stone on the right, since both groups in this corner are now contact stable (both have 5 liberties). But then I have a followup move in the corner (B17 maybe) and I get another huge corner. I don't think white can have the corner and sente.

Anyway, once this corner is settled I'll need to make a count to see what the relative scores are, since I think we're nearing the end of the opening and getting in to the middle game. A quick eyeballing: I think I have more secure territory, while white has more influence. We both have a weak group at present (the lone black stone and lone white stone on the right). Which would indicate that I need to gain influence by attacking white's weak group and running out with my own.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #28 Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:52 pm 
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Whatever Numsgil is smoking, it sure is good...

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #29 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:31 am 
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Numsgil wrote:

Strategy and Thoughts
He might just leave this and go after my lone stone on the right, since both groups in this corner are now contact stable (both have 5 liberties).


As far as I remember Contact Fights, the 5-liberty rule means that you don't have to play another contact move. It says nothing about being able to take sente to play in another part of the board. Most of the time you have to continue locally to make a base or escape by jumping, which is not a contact play.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:48 am 
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Hey Nums, sorry for the delay in posting. I was busy getting ready for the Go congress :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm32 Move 32 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . b X X a . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I hate giving this territory, but I feel its my best course of action. I don't want any weak groups that he can attack. Whether he chooses a or b I will extend once more, he has to respond.
[hide]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 2 . 4 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


[hide]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O B O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This ladder stone is so annoying. I'll try to post more later, I have to go eat some breakfast and get ready for US Open Game 1!

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #31 Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:31 am 
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No worries. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33 Move 33 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X 1 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Hmm, I'm not sure what he's up to. Maybe he's pushing to get ready for a knights jump to get ahead. With the hope of forming a monster central moyo. But take 4th line territory and still be ahead in the pushing battle? Don't mind if I do.

Anyway, this is a forced move. My group is down to 4 liberties, so I'm contact unstable again. I need to add liberties. I can't hane, because white's stones are super stable (6+ liberties) and I'm not, so I'd be hane-ing against stronger stones. Plus it's preferable to not remove liberties from super stable groups.

I'll hold off on counting until my opponent makes a move. The corner is a huge swing vote right now. In fact, if I can grab the corner white has practically no solid territory. Just lots and lots of moyo.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #32 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:41 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm34 Move 34 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #33 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35 Move 35 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
At the risk of (further?) heckling from the kibitzers, I think this is a mistake by white. Both groups were super stable (6+ liberties). White needs to leave contact and either take sente or take the corner or something. Basically this move is too slow. Where's white's followup? A hane, or even double hane, don't have much threat behind them.

So where to play? I could take a big point like the corner. I could start a reduction into the center from the bottom left corner. Or I could start a running fight with my weak group(stone) on the right side. The weak group has priority if I intend to save it. If I make another move, I'm basically telling white I consider that stone to be dead.

At the risk of getting myself in to trouble, I'll opt for the "correct" line of play if this were an even game and start mucking around on the right. Chase white in profit being the goal here.


Counting
Some rough counts of solid territory (rounding to 5s):

Black:
1. Top left corner: 10 points
2. Bottom right: 5 points
3. Bottom left: 15 points
4. Top left: 5 points

White:
No real solid territory.

Some rough counts of moyo potential:

Black:
1. 25 points along the top

White:
1. Left side: 25+15 = 40 points
2. Bottom: 25 points
3. Center: ~<100 points? I'm not sure how to accurately count large areas like this. My eyes "slip" on the board and I lose my place, even counting by 3s.
4. Right side: the two weak groups cancel each other out here so I'm not counting any of this for either player.

So add up moyo potential, and divide by 3, we get: B 10 : W: 50

So final score looks something like: B: 45 W: 50. Since it's within 10 points, and I was rough in my counting anyway, I'm saying it's still a close game on the board.

So I haven't even touched my reverse komi bank yet. Which is good, since the opening and early middle game are my strengths. If I lost ground here I wouldn't expect to win. From here I expect white will eventually start a tactical fight and I'll misread something and a large group will die, and the game will end up close (+/- 5 points).

Of course Kerby doesn't necessarily know that I fail at fighting, so he might become disheartened and play overly conservatively as if my opening ability is reflective of my fighting ability. One can hope ;)


Tactics and Variations
Scenario 1: Run, aiming to counter attack. This seems okay, but it means I have to make life inside a very large white belly. Playable, I think, but not for the tactically timid. The game becomes a 50/50 crap shoot on whether my central group can make life or not. Given that the game is fairly close already, and I have a nice reverse komi, this seems like a bad idea.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 6 4 . 2 . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . 1 . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Scenario 2: I steal white's base, and use it to force him to induce a running move for me.

In the end, though, I have a large weak group with no real hope of counterattack. The inducing move is terrible here.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 2 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Scenario 3:
Capping attack. I use the weak group as a sacrifice to build center facing influence, ruining a large part of white's moyo. White can still invade the top left corner, of course, so I haven't really gained much in terms of territory for myself. But I've ruined enough of white's central moyo to make this work.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 2 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Scenario 4: White tenukis the cap. White starts to solidify his moyo, which is good for white, but I get a pretty amazing amount of thickness that threatens to form a moyo of my own. So I consider this both unlikely and welcome.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 8 6 4 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #34 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:03 pm 
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As a followup: I realize most of the sequences I posted above don't show white's best responses... It's more if white played using my gut instincts (and my gut isn't very strong at go). But I still stand behind the cap.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #35 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:30 pm 
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Numsgil wrote:
A hane, or even double hane, don't have much threat behind them.


Getting sealed in isn't a threat? Or losing the race to get ahead. Black seems to be lacking in fundamentals from his awful approach to the 5-3 onward. Kageyama is crying many single tears.

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Post #36 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:25 pm 
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In my opinion, reducing White's potential in the center isn't a bad idea at this point. The center looks bigger than the top side.

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Post #37 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:10 pm 
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Numsgil wrote:
Strategy and Thoughts
At the risk of (further?) heckling from the kibitzers, I think this is a mistake by white. Both groups were super stable (6+ liberties). White needs to leave contact and either take sente or take the corner or something. Basically this move is too slow. Where's white's followup? A hane, or even double hane, don't have much threat behind them.


Numsgil, if you want to use Contact Fights, you've got to look ahead a bit.
White can reduce Black's three stones to only 3 liberties in sente, so they are not stable at all after White extended to f15.
Even just playing :w3: makes those black stones unstable.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . 4 . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 X X X 3 . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #38 Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:17 am 
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I think this is amazing for W:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 8 6 . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 3 7 . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 X X X 1 4 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O 5 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . c , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


B can probably fight for sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 8 0 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 3 7 9 . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X 1 4 . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Cont.:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm11
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X O O O 1 . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X X X O X . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O O . 3 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But B's fourth line territory is reduced to ashes, and B gets amazingly powerful, forcing crawls on the 2nd line. There's no way Black can kill the lone stone on the right clean, and 3-3 is open in either case. This seems like a very typical case to never ignore the fundamentals of the way the stones walk.

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 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #39 Posted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:09 am 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9Vipr-kscU

:)

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Post #40 Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:49 am 
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Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Sorry for the long wait. The go congress went well, I was 4 wins 2 losses in the US Open, and won 2 other rated games so my AGA rank will most likely go up to 1k :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36 Move 36 Captures: W: 1 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ah, it feels like a good day for a fight. Finally got some much needed sleep after the Congress and am ready to get back into the swing of things. It is important to keep Nums split here. I am hoping this fight will solidify my bottom territory. I feel the fighting is good for white here I am far enough away from his corner in the upper right that I don't feel pressured by it. It feels more like 2 individual stones attacking my 1 (ie 2 weak groups attacking my weak group) and I have a solid bottom to run to. Since Nums didn't take an extra move at the top I will have lots of strong reduction later. Also once I capture the ladder stone I can reduce the bottom right corner significantly. I kind of feel I should have captured the ladder stone instead of taking the other corner, but there's nothing I can do about it now. I am going to explore what is my best choice (a or b or something else) if I get sente out of this battle and can turn and attack his upper corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . b . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X X a . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . , . . . . O , . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O X O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle

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