7/17/2012 - 1p
5/21/2014 - 2p
4/13/2015 - 3p
5/11/2016 - 4p
7/14/2016 - 5p (Mejion cup winner special promotion)
6/28/2017 - 6p
1/24/2018 - 7p (winning Jehan cup)
5/24/2018 - 8p (runner up in major tournament)
7/22/2018 - 9p (Mejion cup winner and winning a game against Kim Jiseok in Baduk wang cup accumulated enough points for promotion)
trout wrote:Article said he accumulated 240 points to reach 9p. How they give weight to each game is not specified.
So 240 points do not necessarily mean 240 wins? Do some wins earn more points than others?
I like the points system better than "win a major tournament and you become 9p". Also don't quite like how once you achieve 9p you stay 9p forever. Anyway, congratulations to Shin Minjun.
Although in his first game as 9p in Korean league he lost to a 5p player.
silviu22 wrote:
I like the points system better than "win a major tournament and you become 9p".
In most cases that should be "win a major INTERNATIONAL tournament and you become 9p", which is much harder.
I actually don't quite like those point-base systems - basically you play long enough you become 9p eventually. There are too many 9p players.
China has a slightly better system. Playing tournament games does sometimes earn you points towards rank promotion. But at the same time you also need to achieve certain winning rate.
Wasn't there some discussion in the Chinese go media when Li Qincheng got his 9p for winning the Asian TV cup, the criticism being it's not important enough as a blitz event and there's only a few players invited (though those are the finalists of large blitz events in each country). Not being 1p anymore certainly made sense, but going straight to 9p was a bit much IMO.
You are right about this. The Chinese side historically considers the Asian TV Cup as one of 'major' tournaments so winners and runner-ups enjoy added promotion right. However, I still consider my previous statement about "Korean promotion being too easy" a valid point. While compiling Korean league games earlier today, I notice that they get another 9-dan professional - Lee Jihyun (m). He was only promoted to 7-dan 2 months ago. Without studying his background information, how many of you can tell me what is his major achievement?
macelee wrote:I notice that they get another 9-dan professional - Lee Jihyun (m). He was only promoted to 7-dan 2 months ago. Without studying his background information, how many of you can tell me what is his major achievement?
Lee Jihyun was promoted to 9p by winning domestic side of Kuksu mountains cup.
International side was won by Park Jungwhan.
I too think Yi Chi-hyeon is well on the way to being famous for not being famous, and he is just one of a pantheon of Korean 9-dans who are over-graded.
Korea has about eighty 9-dans. There are far more 9-dans than of any other grade. It's an inverted pyramid there.
The promotions rules are too easy. But it's not just 9-dan for winning an obscure event. It's (in Yi's case) 4-dan just for qualifying for a tournament. It's promotions for number of wins where they play far too many games because they are all blitz games. (And there are too many tournaments.) Yi Chi-hyeon has gone from 1-dan to 9-dan in 8 years and several of his promotions have been for number of wins, but he has never won anything significant.
The TV Asia Championship is significant because it is really just the tip of three major domestic events. It is not an invitation event - you have to win a major to get there. It's also unfair to describe it is a blitz event, which term really only applies to some Korean events. The TV Asia and its tributaries operate at 30 seconds a move + 10 x 1 minute and so can easily take a couple of hours per game. Games at this speed usually have enough merit to deserve a commentary (e.g. the regular Ryusei and NHK games) and are just slow enough to allow pros to count.
In contrast we are seeing lots of games at the moment in Korea where players are playing on when well behind - even over 30 or 40 points behind. The implication is they don't have time to count. That affects the quality of the game, and naturally most of these games don't merit a commentary.
With grade-based pension rights having disappeared, older 9-dans cling on to a faded playing career. New 9-dans appear wearing nappies. What it all amounts to is that grades are essentially meaningless now, and I have been contemplating for a long time whether to omit them in the GoGoD database.
We previously discussed the new Japanese promotion system, and concluded that it would be harder to reach 9 dan, though there was a bit of disagreement about how much harder. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2732&p=44887&hilit ... ion#p44887
For as long as I can remember, talking to beginners about ranks, I've explained that amateur rank differences correspond to a difference in strength based on handicap stones, whereas pro ranks did not correlate to strength- they are just a type of certification.
From that, it follows that a 9d pro is not necessary stronger than e.g. a 3d pro. It's merely a certification. How strong someone is is a different variable.
It's similar to getting awarded a college degree.
Some folks might argue that "kids these days get colllege degrees too easily". Maybe there's a point there, but at the end of the day, the student fulfilled the requirements to become a college grad, regardless of how smart he/she is.
To disregard that student's achievement is disrespectful, even if you think degrees are too easy to get these days.
Perhaps a bit off topic here, but might a semi-pro system work to solve some of the problems in pro and amateur go? Is this essentially what is already in effect in China and Korea? Amateur Dan grades seem like versions of the professional one's for non-pro players.
I think it might be simpler if ranks 1p to 3p were awarded based on winning percentage and results in comparison to other pros, ranks 4p to 6p and 7p to 9p were based on achievements in national and international championships respectively.
For example, qualifying through a mixed preliminary for an international tournament could earn you 7p, reaching the quarterfinals and 9p for winning it.
It appears to be the case that the historical handicap based ranks, still relevant in over-the-board clubs, has somewhat given way to the win confidence based ratings online servers and go associations have replaced it with. I've read that winning percentage does not quite correlate with handicap stones except over a small spectrum of strength. In pro go, there has been loose correlation between Dans and strength, one pro organisations have for tradition tried to maintain in recent times but ultimately, according to many, one that has all but collapsed.
Perhaps in the far past, the longer time it took for professionals to reach peak strength combined with shorter life expectancy made strength loss over time rare. Maybe some might think it a bit of a lost cause to worry about pro ranks today.
Maybe my post is off topic and should be moved elsewhere.
On Go proverbs:
"A fine Gotation is a diamond in the hand of a dan of wit and a pebble in the hand of a kyu" —Joseph Raux misquoted.
